Should we separate Highend Audio into two divisions: Audiophiles (analogue) and Digitalophiles (digital)?

[PeterA]

If you really want to have such a discussion, Peter, I would suggest you open a new thread with an appropriate, non-inflammatory title that actually addresses the topic you want to discuss.

It would be impossible to have a friendly discussion on this thread, which has been terminally disgraced by an inflammatory and literally divisive title and opening post that are, as has been pointed out, also demonstrably false in terms of use of language, and cannot serve anymore as a vehicle for anything good.

Good idea. I thought you might’ve been highly critical of my suggestion. I’ll give it a try and start a new thread. No membership cards required.

 

[Kbh57]

I enjoy WBF-interesting and knowledgeable folks who share a passion. Happy to learn from many of you. I'm not so passionate that I can summon up much emotion about what equipment someone else prefers to reproduce the music they enjoy, but I suppose its good that there are those that defend the flag that flies over either camp. Sometimes I don't know when a thread is serious-the product of being a slow country boy-but I assume this one maybe is not. I'd rather be known as a guy who likes to listen to good music. To those outside of this pursuit, "audiophile" sounds either creepy or haughty. Not sure how digitalphile would work, but I'd be afraid to google it.

 

[Elliot G.]

??? It’s an interesting question IMO. Analogue and Digital sound definitely differ. While both may be excellent (and I enjoy each) their differences IMO should be noted by what they are called or termed?

Though some may be tempted to post otherwise, this post is not meant as a hit upon digital (as I already stated, ‘I enjoy digital too’ - mine excels at reproduction). Rather it’s meant to distinguish the difference between analogue and digital listeners by their name or designation.

The term “audiophile” (1951) came into being before digital (1967) ever existed. Therefore it seems a proper term for vinyl (1930s) and tape (1945) listeners, but not digital. Therefore should those who are digital only rightfully be called Audiophiles or should they be distinguished as digitalophiles (not meant as a lower designation, but a clearer more precise one)? Or should we more accurately speak in terms of vinyl audiophiles, tape audiophiles, CD audiophiles, and streaming audiophiles!

Can we be civil enough to have this conversation?

we can certainly have any conversation and be civil however my question is why must we constantly go back to the same three subjects and this is one of those. Is identity so important? I love music , I don't like being called the "A " word.

 

[PeterA]

we can certainly have any conversation and be civil however my question is why must we constantly go back to the same three subjects and this is one of those. Is identity so important? I love music , I don't like being called the "A " word.

I don’t really like the audiophile word either. However, I do love music and I do love sound, and when the sound improves, I enjoy the music more. Better, more realistic, more natural sound gives me more insight into the music. Of course I can play Led Zeppelin in my truck and have a great time.

 

[Elliot G.]

I don’t really like the audiophile word either. However, I do love music and I do love sound, and when the sound improves, I enjoy the music more. Better, more realistic, more natural sound gives me more insight into the music. Of course I can play Led Zeppelin in my truck and have a great time.

that's perfect Peter but the division by identity based on the same old questions just redressed with different words is insane. How many of the same worthless arguments are required to appeal to some moral superiority that analog is better , or tubes are better, or horns are better.
This is mine is bigger than yours over and over and IMO is nonsense and totally boring.
Lets talk about something else

 

[fbhifi]

I love music ,

We all got into this hobby because of a love of music.

Let’s not loose sight of that fundamental driving force.

 

[Elliot G.]

We all got into this hobby because of a love of music.

Let’s not loose sight of that fundamental driving force.

exactly not to prove that someone is better than someone else Franz. IMO this stuff is dragging the whole industry and hobby down. Its supposed to be fun and enjoyable., not a pissing contest

YES I ADORE MUSIC the gear is only a vehicle not the trip

 

[microstrip]

I don’t really like the audiophile word either.

Well, I really like it. I came to WBF mainly to read and write about audiophile matters.

However, I do love music and I do love sound, and when the sound improves, I enjoy the music more.

Ok, easy to agree, you are quoting a famous sound reproduction book. .

Better, more realistic, more natural sound gives me more insight into the music.

Realistic and natural are common general words, we all agree on it!

Of course I can play Led Zeppelin in my truck and have a great time.

The famous book also addresses this aspect ... Do you know what is the difference between your enjoyment in the truck and listening to your system?

 

[microstrip]

We all got into this hobby because of a love of music.

But people can love music and ignore this hobby.

Let’s not loose sight of that fundamental driving force.

I can't see how the sight of it changes our attitude towards the hobby.

Sound reproduction is a technological industry and a business, it should be discussed at such. Surely it should be discussed in a fair and civilized way, without taboos and respecting others perspectives.

 

[Al M.]

Interesting that this thread still elicits discussion, while we have a far more interesting thread going on here, where I would hope more people would contribute:

Vinyl and Digital: How does the sound or listening experience differ?

Rather than argue or debate about which format is better, I would be much more interested in a discussion about how they sound different and why. Many of the analog versus digital discussions are about how one format sounds more and more like the other as it improves, but that does not begin to...

www.whatsbestforum.com

Why then do we still bother with this thread which was inflammatory from the start?

 

[PeterA]

that's perfect Peter but the division by identity based on the same old questions just redressed with different words is insane. How many of the same worthless arguments are required to appeal to some moral superiority that analog is better , or tubes are better, or horns are better.
This is mine is bigger than yours over and over and IMO is nonsense and totally boring.
Lets talk about something else

Elliot, I think we are slowly moving away from discussing what is better. No one has to read or participate in these discussions, you included. Just repeating that you think the discussions are stupid is kind of pointless and boring, don't you think?

 

[Elliot G.]

Elliot, I think we are slowly moving away from discussing what is better. No one has to read or participate in these discussions, you included. Just repeating that you think the discussions are stupid is kind of pointless and boring, don't you think?

Elliot, I think we are slowly moving away from discussing what is better. No one has to read or participate in these discussions, you included. Just repeating that you think the discussions are stupid is kind of pointless and boring, don't you think?

could fool me

 

[fbhifi]

Elliot, I think we are slowly moving away from discussing what is better.

… and moving towards analyzing and then debating whether water is wet or puppies are adorable.

 

[audiobomber]

Do you know what is the difference between your enjoyment in the truck and listening to your system?

I am curious to hear your explanation.

I have never tried to improve the sound quality in my vehicles, except by tweaking the tone controls. But I put a lot of effort into improving the sound of my four network audio systems.

 

[microstrip]

I am curious to hear your explanation.

Mostly statistics. Although we can have exceptionally gratifying experiences in lower quality systems, we can anticipate that a good system will give them more often and more systematically.

Most of the time my car listening is simply casual, to entertain during trips. However when I listen in my system I usually engage with the music. A few times it also happened in the car or in lower quality systems, but very seldom.

Other causes can help musical engagement - collective engagement under the drive of an persuasive expert ("guru" ) is often referred in audiophile circles.

 

[Anton D]

I am often struck by how we (audiophiles) strive so intensely to create 'more musical enjoyment' through 'higher fidelity' while my non-audiophile friends and family accomplish the same thing without our gear fetish. I have yet to see a party get better because I went up from CD quality bit rates to high rez files.

One wife of a fellow Hi Fi Club member once told us: Music lovers like romance, audiophiles like gynecology.

I get what she means.

There are also different horses for different courses. In my car, I can sound pretty much exactly like any singer I am listening to. At home, not so much!

Does anyone here hear a great song come on the radio in the car and say to himself, "Wow, I love this song. Once I get home, I am going to play it again so I can really enjoy it!"

I don't think musical joy requires much of a system at all. Hearing the subway train on Belafonte at Carnegie Hall adds exactly zero extra musical pleasure. I don't need to hear musicians turning pages. Microanatomical artifacts aren't part of that, for me.

Comparing interconnects at a club listening session is part of my interest in gear, not so much trying to figure out what Artist XYZ is really trying to say.

I do admit that John Cage's 4'33" is better on my Hi Fi rig than in my car.

We already divide ourselves from music lovers who don't need our pricey gear to reach bliss, no need to further divide amongst ourselves.

 

[audiobomber]

I don't see any reason why one can't be an audiophile and a music lover. That is certainly how I describe myself.

 

[Al M.]

I am often struck by how we (audiophiles) strive so intensely to create 'more musical enjoyment' through 'higher fidelity' while my non-audiophile friends and family accomplish the same thing without our gear fetish. I have yet to see a party get better because I went up from CD quality bit rates to high rez files.

One wife of a fellow Hi Fi Club member once told us: Music lovers like romance, audiophiles like gynecology.

I get what she means.

There are also different horses for different courses. In my car, I can sound pretty much exactly like any singer I am listening to. At home, not so much!

Does anyone here hear a great song come on the radio in the car and say to himself, "Wow, I love this song. Once I get home, I am going to play it again so I can really enjoy it!"

I don't think musical joy requires much of a system at all. Hearing the subway train on Belafonte at Carnegie Hall adds exactly zero extra musical pleasure. I don't need to hear musicians turning pages. Microanatomical artifacts aren't part of that, for me.

Comparing interconnects at a club listening session is part of my interest in gear, not so much trying to figure out what Artist XYZ is really trying to say.

I do admit that John Cage's 4'33" is better on my Hi Fi rig than in my car.

We already divide ourselves from music lovers who don't need our pricey gear to reach bliss, no need to further divide amongst ourselves.

Music on a good system has a visceral impact and highlights subtlety and detail, all part of a more complete presentation of the music, in a way that lesser reproduction cannot match.

Also, while I may hear music on a car radio, at home I am hearing a musical performance, happening right in front of me.

The musical experience can be considerably more intense on a good system.

I am both a music lover and an audiophile.

 

[microstrip]

I am often struck by how we (audiophiles) strive so intensely to create 'more musical enjoyment' through 'higher fidelity' while my non-audiophile friends and family accomplish the same thing without our gear fetish. I have yet to see a party get better because I went up from CD quality bit rates to high rez files.

In fact, I do not rank my musical enjoyment or do not need excuses to have an hobby around the high-end audio. I surely find gratifying to find more music in my recordings as my system evolves.

One wife of a fellow Hi Fi Club member once told us: Music lovers like romance, audiophiles like gynecology.

I get what she means.

Well, I can't. But I never met her husband ...

There are also different horses for different courses. In my car, I can sound pretty much exactly like any singer I am listening to. At home, not so much!

Does anyone here hear a great song come on the radio in the car and say to himself, "Wow, I love this song. Once I get home, I am going to play it again so I can really enjoy it!"

I listen mostly to a classical radio station, that fortunately also transmits some comments and debates on pieces of music and sometimes I re-listen to music they have be transmitting later.

I don't think musical joy requires much of a system at all. Hearing the subway train on Belafonte at Carnegie Hall adds exactly zero extra musical pleasure. I don't need to hear musicians turning pages. Microanatomical artifacts aren't part of that, for me.

Great bass is not listening to subways or trams. It is listening to the energy of the whole mob being driven by the songs in a large hall and the power of the singers. And I love feeling he interplay between musicians and the noises and proper micro detail. It helps me enjoying the performance, feeling that musicians are humans, not just instruments.

Comparing interconnects at a club listening session is part of my interest in gear, not so much trying to figure out what Artist XYZ is really trying to say.

I have say that I hate collective cable compares at club or public listening sessions. I only do them privately at home, at maximum with an invited victim. I appreciate a lot listening to other systems, but I dislike compares.

I do admit that John Cage's 4'33" is better on my Hi Fi rig than in my car.

We already divide ourselves from music lovers who don't need our pricey gear to reach bliss, no need to further divide amongst ourselves.

I fail to see why people are using the words "division" and "music lovers" so much in this thread.

 

[Al M.]

I fail to see why people are using the words "division" and "music lovers" so much in this thread.

"Division" is literally in the title of this ill begotten thread.