Who has greatest power in influencing audiophiles in today's world? Dealers? Magazines/ Reviewers? Forums? Shows? Social Media Stars?

[caesar]

Magazines seem to prop up the industry like pushing wilson and magico, cover for mofi fraud, while shafting the newer and smaller brands by limiting comparisons that can differentiate the brands. Lost much of their power, but push the status quo...

Forums seem to create huge band wagon effects (taiko and lampizator, here), while providing some information on other brands - if the fans of those brands can get through the noise and contribute...

Dealers, who are great salesmen, can definitely push a brand. But what makes them invest in a brand that will go into their showroom? And how many actual visitors to they get?

Shows? sound sucks. But great socially, so can build relationships...

Social Media Stars?

Others?

Who do you guys think?

 

[Mike Lavigne]

as much as the hobby is somewhat segmented into different camps, it varies widely where the power is to influence buzz, actual serious interest or purchasing intent.

generally........just what you might expect.

the heavyweight brick and mortar brands with their vertical distribution use media and dealers to start that process. and their database of legacy customers. actual marketing. advance teases. and shows. they try not to cede too much power to forums.

more direct distribution type brands (and in-home dealers) are more forum and event/shows marketed. and influencers and YouTube. some media plus word of mouth. it can include some traditional media.

more esoteric product categories like vinyl and tape have their own more word of mouth and forum hierarchy of influence. unto themselves. hard to pin those down.

you have the serious computer audio brands and related tweaks being very forum related.

and vintage and horns and underground products are very word of mouth and personal network mainly plus forums.

really no one size fits all.....and it's normal that serious audiophiles have their attention in different places for different type products. or evolve from one place for their product information and strong influence to another as they evolve. over time it becomes clear where the best information is to advance their journey and fun and system building.

eventually word of mouth is most influential.....is my own experience.

btw.....welcome back @caesar , have not seen you around for awhile. we missed you.

 

[Lee]

So I worked a lot on this when I was CEO of Nextscreen....I would suggest the better framing is to think about it being a customer purchase cycle where there are different stages of "awareness" and that certain types of channels matter more than others at each stage of the purchase decision.

P.S. Show sound has been excellent in many rooms recently.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

So I worked a lot on this when I was CEO of Nextscreen....I would suggest the better framing is to think about it being a customer purchase cycle where there are different stages of "awareness" and that certain types of channels matter more than others at each stage of the purchase decision.

P.S. Show sound has been excellent in many rooms recently.

agree.

in auto retail marketing we would think of pre-funnel, high funnel, mid funnel and low funnel. the manufacturers market to the high funnel customers, then mid funnel is the regional dealer groups, and low funnel is the dealers. there were clear rules for google search terms words we could own for our search engine marketing on google focusing on our role. 80% of auto purchases are directly related to google searches. 20% are more strictly location based.

and we had a whole dealership process for 'pre-funnel' where we would actively market to the service customers to buy their cars since those customers have not shopped around yet and were very profitable if we could sell them before they were active customers.

when you are spending 6 figures a month in dealership advertising (7 figures+ a month in our local dealer group) it was all very scientific.

but home audio marketing is much less predictable than the auto business. but some stuff does relate. auto buying cycles are predictable. it was 42 months pre-COVID, now it's up to 48 months as prices rise and remote work skews the need. hifi buying cycles are all over the board.

 

[Lee]

Thought experiment…

How much, if any, is this due to media (online and print) favoring more established brands versus consumers realizing that they are screwed if a new brand goes out of business?

It happens all the time.

Most of my friends and myself have a story in our journey where a component mfr went out of business or could not service a unit or scaled back to limited production.

 

[Perfect sense Audio]

Thought experiment…

How much, if any, is this due to media (online and print) favoring more established brands versus consumers realizing that they are screwed if a new brand goes out of business?

It happens all the time.

Most of my friends and myself have a story in our journey where a component mfr went out of business or could not service a unit or scaled back to limited production.

Any brand - small or large, new or old - can go out of business, where it's hard both as a business professional and a consumer to forecast who might get into trouble.

Many products can be serviced either way though down the line if there's not very specific hardware or software being implemented even after a manufacturer is no longer active. There are exceptions though of course (MBL comes to mind right now) using very specific and unique drivers.

 

[Lee]

Any brand - small or large, new or old - can go out of business, where it's hard both as a business professional and a consumer to forecast who might get into trouble.

Many products can be serviced either way though down the line if there's not very specific hardware or software being implemented even after a manufacturer is no longer active. There are exceptions though of course (MBL comes to mind right now) using very specific and unique drivers.

True, but it’s better odds to go with the bigger, more established names generally speaking. Although one thought Dartzeel and mbl were unlikely candidates as well.

 

[caesar]

True, but it’s better odds to go with the bigger, more established names generally speaking. Although one thought Dartzeel and mbl were unlikely candidates as well.

yes, but they are all small companies in the scheme of things. Hope this doesn't happen for a long, long time, but what happens D'Agostino goes? Or CAT Stevens? Or Kevin HVAC?

 

[Lee]

yes, but they are all small companies in the scheme of things. Hope this doesn't happen for a long, long time, but what happens D'Agostino goes? Or CAT Stevens? Or Kevin HVAC?

It will be a shame if Kevin’s HVAC goes out as he lives in Sarasota!

 

[Lee]

No music fan wants to see Cat Stevens go either…

 

[microstrip]

Globally an interesting question, but we can't expect that a starting myopic post centered on WBF typical hate pets can lead to a fresh approach to this subject.

The high-end is moving fast - it is not any more centered in just a few US brands, a new generation of designers provided with great knowledge, skills and science is bringing top products in the market. The geography of the market shares is changing, and in fact many growing and significant markets with different cultures are not represented in this forum.

The future of high-end is hard to foresee - recently I read an article about using AI-assisted analog emulation—DACs with profiles to mimic the "voicing" of classic tube amps or R2R tape.

 

[caesar]

Globally an interesting question, but we can't expect that a starting myopic post centered on WBF typical hate pets can lead to a fresh approach to this subject.

The high-end is moving fast - it is not any more centered in just a few US brands, a new generation of designers provided with great knowledge, skills and science is bringing top products in the market. The geography of the market shares is changing, and in fact many growing and significant markets with different cultures are not represented in this forum.

The future of high-end is hard to foresee - recently I read an article about using AI-assisted analog emulation—DACs with profiles to mimic the "voicing" of classic tube amps or R2R tape.

so you are ignoring the key stakeholders and influencers in the question... and your answer is AI?!? and who said this wasn't a global hobby? why wouldn't influence techniques apply to brands manufactured outside the US? how is the "geography of the market shares" changing? who is assuming ALL owners are hanging out in audio forums, when there are guys like you who seemingly like to argue for the sake of arguing, instead of being helpful community members? who asked about the future of high end (maybe you should start that post)?.....

 

[Grateful]

Who do you guys think?

We’re all unique as are our journeys. It’s a great question and I don’t have a clue what’s truly the best answer.

Speaking solely for myself (a very unique person), I’m reentering this great hobby after an almost 20 year hiatus (mostly spent raising my beautiful 17 year old daughter and my career). I’m definitely going to lean on my peers for advice, counsel, and support. Unfortunately, reality almost constantly shows you can’t really trust people with chips in the game….

Dealers? Magazines/ Reviewers? Forums? Shows?​

 

[Grateful]

P.S. Show sound has been excellent in many rooms recently.

That’s great news! What’s been the biggest change? Are the rooms much better tuned than in the past?

 

[Kbh57]

In considering the OP's question, its important to define the universe of audiophiles. If we consider that to be all who are actively interested in the reproduction of recorded music, I'm afraid the YouTube reviewers/commentators have disproportionate influence. The great majority of audiophiles are unable or unwilling to play in the high end market for audio gear. This grows more true everyday as prices skyrocket. Most audiophiles are building systems with relatively inexpensive gear compared to many of the systems we see on WBF or at audio shows. YouTube channels directed at this segment of audiophiles have proliferated and are attracting large numbers of followers. Some of the channels have hundreds of thousands of loyal followers. So, collectively, I think these YouTubers have more influence over more audiophiles than magazines, trade shows, or brick and mortor dealers who focus most of their efforts on a much smaller slice of the audiophile community.

I don't necessarily think this circumstance is positive. There are certainly high quality YouTube channels delivering useful information. There are also lots of content producers just looking for clicks and there is a big problem with biased information and undisclosed conflicts of interest. For better or worse, however, this group wields a lot of influence over a big segment of this hobby.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

In considering the OP's question, its important to define the universe of audiophiles. If we consider that to be all who are actively interested in the reproduction of recorded music, I'm afraid the YouTube reviewers/commentators have disproportionate influence. The great majority of audiophiles are unable or unwilling to play in the high end market for audio gear. This grows more true everyday as prices skyrocket. Most audiophiles are building systems with relatively inexpensive gear compared to many of the systems we see on WBF or at audio shows. YouTube channels directed at this segment of audiophiles have proliferated and are attracting large numbers of followers. Some of the channels have hundreds of thousands of loyal followers. So, collectively, I think these YouTubers have more influence over more audiophiles than magazines, trade shows, or brick and mortor dealers who focus most of their efforts on a much smaller slice of the audiophile community.

I don't necessarily think this circumstance is positive. There are certainly high quality YouTube channels delivering useful information. There are also lots of content producers just looking for clicks and there is a big problem with biased information and undisclosed conflicts of interest. For better or worse, however, this group wields a lot of influence over a big segment of this hobby.

personally i do not know of one of my audiophile friends who pay much attention to YouTube hifi influencers. i know i don't ever watch them or consider them. other than a couple who have mentioned me and so i became aware of that.

is it more entertainment and they are pursuing click bait and fodder for hifi wanna-be's? or do they actually have street cred and influence purchases by serious audiophiles? or just more entry level people? who knows? i'm skeptical. maybe they are just below my radar and my circle of friends and i am out of touch? i could see that.

my opinion is that word of mouth is much stronger than YouTube influencers for actual serious buying decisions. and those YouTube guys are data points like a random post on a forum.

 

[Grateful]

I think we need to agree on a definition for “audiophile” for this topic. I suspect many people putting together $1,000 - $10,000 audio systems are very influenced by YouTube videos. Merely a guess, I’ve never seen one of those videos.

This makes sense to me… “In considering the OP's question, its important to define the universe of audiophiles. If we consider that to be all who are actively interested in the reproduction of recorded music, I'm afraid the YouTube reviewers/commentators have disproportionate influence”

 

[Kingrex]

i bought a Dartzeel because people I knew, and systems I heard, used it.
I bought my First Sound Preamp after the manufacturer came to my house and plugged it in.
Same for my STST Motus TT. But it was a dealer, not manufacturer that came to my house.
I bought my Mojo Audio Server and DAC from online chatter on forums.
Same for my PAP speakers.
I bought my Found Music Blade amp after hearing it as a friends house. But I sat and sat. Bought a Dartzeel. Was somewhat happy. Then the manufacturer of the Blade came to my house, amps in hand and I bought them.
My sub was recommended to me by the manufacturer of my amps.
Cables has been online chatter that lead me to a brand. Up to a dealer to close the deal.
Otari MX5050 from online chatter, then forum questions and advise from people who know.
Torus because it fit with my business.

 

[Kingrex]

YouTube reviewers/commentators have disproportionate influence.

Might depend on the product and influencer. I don't know its disproportionate. I assume its a momentary burst of sales.

I know Audiophile Junkie started selling some cables and sold lots of them. He also promoted BACCH and sold a whole lot of that. Now he is onto Popori speakers and will sell a fair shake.

I assume OCD Mikey turns a fair amount of gear.
Jays Audiolab has also turned over a lot of gear.

All those guys are hybrid models. As far as a true online influencer, like Guttenberg, I assume they push quite a few sales to the products they review. I bet its a momentary bump. If people hear about something later on, then go looking for information and find the Influencer video, it will be validation.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Might depend on the product and influencer. I don't know its disproportionate. I assume its a momentary burst of sales.

I know Audiophile Junkie started selling some cables and sold lots of them. He also promoted BACCH and sold a whole lot of that. Now he is onto Popori speakers and will sell a fair shake.

I assume OCD Mikey turns a fair amount of gear.
Jays Audiolab has also turned over a lot of gear.

All those guys are hybrid models. As far as a true online influencer, like Guttenberg, I assume they push quite a few sales to the products they review. I bet its a momentary bump. If people hear about something later on, then go looking for information and find the Influencer video, it will be validation.

do you know anyone personally who has bought gear due directly to a YouTube influencer? or even mostly due to them?

i know OCD Mikey has been a dealer for awhile. how much of what he sells is YouTube oriented. or out of his area? not sure about Audiophile Junkie. so what is what?

not saying they do not have a presence to some degree in the hfi noise background. but what exactly does that do? my perspective is that it entertains mostly. which is all YouTube cares about. viewers. so don't confuse subscribers or video views with hifi commerce.

i subscribe to a round the world trawler YouTube channel and live the yachting life vicariously thru it. my wife has chosen an RV instead. that is my reality. and i embrace it fully. but i do what i can to still feel a part of that other dream retired future. no harm no foul.