Which is Better Sound From High Power: Single Tube SET or Parallel Tube SET?

[PeterA]

i am sure you can judge speakers on a whole but it is not possible to judge drivers in such disparate set ups without replacing it in the same horn speaker, especially given how close they would be in reality. For example, if there was no magic lacking in one of the systems you would not be able to say if it came from the drivers or something else.

Yes, One can compare completed speakers, and one can compare drivers.

David tried at least five different Eurodyn driver sets before settling on the pair for Tang’s speakers. They sounded different. David has other S2 compression drivers that sound slightly different from the ones in my speakers, and they are all from the same vintage. I might try them in my system to see which ones I prefer.

We have all heard about different cartridge samples. I have three vintage cartridges. Same model with similar serial numbers. One was never used for 60 years and was NOS when I got it. The three sound very slightly different. The NOS one needed many more hours to sound like the others.

I don’t know if David has heard the Vitavox reproductions made today from the same casts. He has other versions from the 70s in storage and a NOS. Based on different versions from the past that were not 50 years different in age but just the next iteration, they all sounded different. And then when they got the license in Japan to build them there, those speakers sound different with the drivers shipped from England and cabinets made in Japan.

One of the issues is different wood, different glues, different cabinet shape, and different assemblers. I know an SME dealer who requests a specific technician at SME to build his personal tonearms because of the way he builds them versus the others.

One of the reasons it took David 20 years to get a second speaker to match his other one was he had to search for a match. The first was exported to Japan and he found that one 20 years ago and the other one was found a couple years ago in the United States from a veteran who bought them in Japan years ago. He traveled to both locations to inspect before he bought. He then compared them directly to each other before he sold them to me.

I do not know much about this, this is what I’ve learned through conversations with David. If anyone wants more specifics, I suggest you reach out to him via email.

 

[bonzo75]

when same drivers are compared in the same speaker, am sure one can assess if driver is different. Yes I believe that different iterations would be different sounding through the decades, also with tannoys, Altecs, tubes, anything that has lasted as a company for decades.

 

[morricab]

when same drivers are compared in the same speaker, am sure one can assess if driver is different. Yes I believe that different iterations would be different sounding through the decades, also with tannoys, Altecs, tubes, anything that has lasted as a company for decades.

The crossover would need tweaking probably for each driver change…not plug and play…

 

[bonzo75]

The crossover would need tweaking probably for each driver change…not plug and play…

well in theory you are replacing a driver with identical specs

 

[morricab]

well in theory you are replacing a driver with identical specs

Can tell you never built speakers…

 

[bonzo75]

Can tell you never built speakers…

i was worried they might sound like the ones you did

 

[morricab]

i was worried they might sound like the ones you did

It’s ok to be ignorant…just don’t flaunt it..

 

[bonzo75]

It’s ok to be ignorant…just don’t flaunt it..

You mean like you who claims to be a techie and says AS 2000 and Horning turntables are similar design just because you see metal?

 

[PeterA]

Have you heard the Living Voice Vox Olympians with Elyssian subs? I suspect you would lose your mind (in a good way)... Do try also to hear either the Symphonia or Aurora from Aries Cerat...they are wonderful modern horn examples.

No I have not heard the Living Voice Vox Olympians. It’s always fun to hear other good gear. I’ve already lost my mind.

 

[morricab]

You mean like you who claims to be a techie and says AS 2000 and Horning turntables are similar design just because you see metal?

It just shows you didn’t even understand my point…I wasn’t trying to say they were similar…let me know when your reading comprehension skills have improved

 

[morricab]

No I have not heard the Living Voice Vox Olympians. It’s always fun to hear other good gear. I’ve already lost my mind.

They sound a fair bit different than the videos you’ve posted…whether or not you consider those representative or not I don’t know.

 

[bonzo75]

It just shows you didn’t even understand my point…I wasn’t trying to say they were similar…let me know when your reading comprehension skills have improved

"The Horning SATI TT looks very similar in design" - reading comprehension lol

Natural Sound

Thanks Peter, it wasn't immediately apparent what was under the metal plate. Someone else more fully picked up the ball I was making desires known towards making use of. Both photos were appreciated. Your enjoyably simple solution reminds me of making an Euler spring from sticks and a...

www.whatsbestforum.com

 

[morricab]

"The Horning SATI TT looks very similar in design" - reading comprehension lol

Natural Sound

Thanks Peter, it wasn't immediately apparent what was under the metal plate. Someone else more fully picked up the ball I was making desires known towards making use of. Both photos were appreciated. Your enjoyably simple solution reminds me of making an Euler spring from sticks and a...

www.whatsbestforum.com

Cherry pick and take out of context much? Read post #3996 in that thread. And yes there are similarities in terms of being very high mass, unsuspended, thread drive TTs. The point was much more about the bearing and the DIFFERENCES and what Horning claims about no contact bearings. Guess you missed that part...

 

[bonzo75]

Cherry pick and take out of context much? Read post #3996 in that thread. And yes there are similarities in terms of being very high mass, unsuspended, thread drive TTs. The point was much more about the bearing and the DIFFERENCES and what Horning claims about no contact bearings. Guess you missed that part...

yes. grounded bearing Vs air bearing, 50lg Vs more than 100 on platter, titanium Vs steel, different motors and controller. Very similar.

 

[sjs]

We are using the M77 preamp and Gakuoh. We have also used the Souga 2A3. The distributor (for both Living Voice and Kondo) did not like the Ongaku on this setup and we never set it up this way. View attachment 106423

If this is where I think it is, I was lucky enough to hear this system back in 2017, I think it was M7 or M1000, and 2A3 or Gakuoh, a very nice afternoon.

 

[adrianywu]

If this is where I think it is, I was lucky enough to hear this system back in 2017, I think it was M7 or M1000, and 2A3 or Gakuoh, a very nice afternoon.

Good memory. It was at a different place at Wong Chuk Hang at the time. It could have been the M7 or the M1000. We used both, and I actually preferred the M7 (the original model). Our current place has far better acoustics.

 

[adrianywu]

Yes, One can compare completed speakers, and one can compare drivers.

David tried at least five different Eurodyn driver sets before settling on the pair for Tang’s speakers. They sounded different. David has other S2 compression drivers that sound slightly different from the ones in my speakers, and they are all from the same vintage. I might try them in my system to see which ones I prefer.

We have all heard about different cartridge samples. I have three vintage cartridges. Same model with similar serial numbers. One was never used for 60 years and was NOS when I got it. The three sound very slightly different. The NOS one needed many more hours to sound like the others.

I don’t know if David has heard the Vitavox reproductions made today from the same casts. He has other versions from the 70s in storage and a NOS. Based on different versions from the past that were not 50 years different in age but just the next iteration, they all sounded different. And then when they got the license in Japan to build them there, those speakers sound different with the drivers shipped from England and cabinets made in Japan.

One of the issues is different wood, different glues, different cabinet shape, and different assemblers. I know an SME dealer who requests a specific technician at SME to build his personal tonearms because of the way he builds them versus the others.

One of the reasons it took David 20 years to get a second speaker to match his other one was he had to search for a match. The first was exported to Japan and he found that one 20 years ago and the other one was found a couple years ago in the United States from a veteran who bought them in Japan years ago. He traveled to both locations to inspect before he bought. He then compared them directly to each other before he sold them to me.

I do not know much about this, this is what I’ve learned through conversations with David. If anyone wants more specifics, I suggest you reach out to him via email.

There are of course sample to sample variation, but one cannot generalize after hearing one or two examples from the "original" production to conclude that the older model is superior to the current one.

 

[sjs]

Good memory. It was at a different place at Wong Chuk Hang at the time. It could have been the M7 or the M1000. We used both, and I actually preferred the M7 (the original model). Our current place has far better acoustics.

I think we used both the M7 and M1000 that afternoon, I also preferred the M7. I don't think you had the subs at the time. Good to hear you found a better room.

 

[PeterA]

There are of course sample to sample variation, but one cannot generalize after hearing one or two examples from the "original" production to conclude that the older model is superior to the current one.

There is a general consensus that the original Lamm ML2 is very slightly better than later versions. And people have explained why they think so both in sonic terms and technical differences. How many samples do you think one must listen to to feel confident about such an opinion?

Reviewers often compare the next version of something to a previous version: mark I version mark II. How many samples do you think they must hear before declaring their opinion?

 

[adrianywu]

There is a general consensus that the original Lamm ML2 is very slightly better than later versions. And people have explained why they think so both in sonic terms and technical differences. How many samples do you think one must listen to to feel confident about such an opinion?

Reviewers often compare the next version of something to a previous version: mark I version mark II. How many samples do you think they must hear before declaring their opinion?

I was referring to the Vitavox S2, which the manufacturer claims is unchanged from the "original".