What innovations and improvements have there been in Horn Speakers in the last 20 years? Any?

[caesar]

Horns seem like such a tiny market, at least in North America. What innovations have there been for these types of speakers in the last 20 years, if any?

What are the sonic differences?

 

[Folsom]

See Danley, JBL new CD horns for studio, and Klipsche brand new horns for mid/tweet.

 

[caesar]

See Danley, JBL new CD horns for studio, and Klipsche brand new horns for mid/tweet.

Thanks, but what are sonic differences?

 

[Folsom]

Danley is able to have extreme directivity with lowest distortion, high sensitivity, and play concert levels (their market). A show with their gear is next level, palpable like you haven’t heard.

Read Klipsch 2019 reviews at shows. See JBL reviews on forum, Jeffery has redesign of M2.

 

[MPS]

Interesting question.. What would be the major advancements in speaker technology in the last 50 years or so in general?
Think about Quad ESL57 or Altec "Voice of the Theatre", from thereon it's mainly been optimization rather than major development.
Bit of history: "Rice and Kellogg had a well equipped laboratory at their disposal. This lab possessed a vacuum tube amplifier with an unheard of 200 watts, a large selection of the new electrically cut phonograph records and a variety of loudspeaker prototypes that Bell Labs had been collecting over the past decade. Among these were Lodge's cone, a speaker that used compressed air, a corona discharge (plasma) speaker, and an electrostatic speaker." And this was in 1920s

 

[bonzo75]

Interesting question.. What would be the major advancements in speaker technology in the last 50 years or so in general?
Think about Quad ESL57 or Altec "Voice of the Theatre", from thereon it's mainly been optimization rather than major development.
Bit of history: "Rice and Kellogg had a well equipped laboratory at their disposal. This lab possessed a vacuum tube amplifier with an unheard of 200 watts, a large selection of the new electrically cut phonograph records and a variety of loudspeaker prototypes that Bell Labs had been collecting over the past decade. Among these were Lodge's cone, a speaker that used compressed air, a corona discharge (plasma) speaker, and an electrostatic speaker." And this was in 1920s

it's been development if you think of it in smaller sizes, different looks, and portability

 

[MPS]

Yes, development for sure, less innovations.
I have the Avantgarde Acoustic Duo XD:s, while they present "latest" development, their technology, as horns, is very traditional. I personally think it's more about implementation than pure innovation.
Somebody on said: "if it ain't broken..."

 

[caesar]

Yes, development for sure, less innovations.
I have the Avantgarde Acoustic Duo XD:s, while they present "latest" development, their technology, as horns, is very traditional. I personally think it's more about implementation than pure innovation.
Somebody on said: "if it ain't broken..."

Hi MPS,
Congrats on those awesome Avantgardes! I've heard those on several occasions, and they are truly outstanding. If I could convince the wife to get a fifth system, I would get some also.

But from a practical matter, as awesome as those speakers are, they ain't cheap! If you wen't with a prior generation, say something from around 1999, you could have paid $10K-$15K. Heck, you can occasionally find 20 year old Trios with subs for under $15K. So curious what sonic benefits you are getting with newer model. Thanks

 

[asiufy]

But from a practical matter, as awesome as those speakers are, they ain't cheap! If you wen't with a prior generation, say something from around 1999, you could have paid $10K-$15K. Heck, you can occasionally find 20 year old Trios with subs for under $15K. So curious what sonic benefits you are getting with newer model. Thanks

Better drivers, better crossovers, and easier/more seamless driver integration, specially the bass modules, with the XD technology.
We used to have an old Duo 2.2 with upgraded drivers in the store, and it was a lot of fun. Of course it was quite a bit harder to dial in than the XD ones, but of course it was doable, if you knew what you were doing and aiming to get.
That's not to say that those $15k Trios aren't great buys, or even a $10k older Duo! I've actually recommended Keith to do just that, to scratch his horn itch on the (relatively) cheap.

 

[MPS]

Hmmm...
it wasn't my intention to kill the conversation, I was kind of hoping someone would step in and point out some new invention within the last 20 years.
Anyway come to think of it, I'm pretty traditional hobbyist,
playing LP-records with tube amplifiers and listening to horn loudspeakers.
Really the only "recent" invention affecting my selection of equipment is to include music streaming device.
On the speakers itself the latest development is the inclusion of DSP for bass amplifiers but didn't Meridian do that already somewhere between 80s and 90s?
Talking about AA their strength is in solid engineering and maximizing the known technology to produce some of the finest speakers available.

 

[Folsom]

The Synergy horn is a new invention. It's about the only thing a patent has been issued on, too.

 

[MPS]

Have seen Synergy in DIY projects but is there a commercial hifi manufacturing?
The principle of Synergy seems attractive, sort of "one way" spreaker.

 

[Folsom]

Danley. Then there is the Red Spade that looks pretty darn nice.There's another company that has their flagship, surely expensive, and probably awesome. Damned if I can figure it out. It's white, looks like a synergy horn mounted to a tower that's wood colored-ish striped or something. The company doesn't have anything else like it below that flagship. It was last week I noticed it looking at some companies website but totally forget.

 

[Folsom]

I found the other one.

 

[bonzo75]

The drivers are worse. AG drivers, compared to what existed before. None of the companies can match the investment and the R&D that bell labs put into western electrics, followed by the many years of Altec that morphed into JBL into TAD. These companies were huge on R&D and moving forward, in comparison today's companies are one man operations plus a bit more, struggling to keep alive.

Best passive Midbass integration came with the dual woofer VoTTs and other front loaded horns, though for those who prefer active, today is better.

Sensitivity and ease of drive has been dropping except with AER.

AER and TAD have the highest resolution, imo AER is the best driver and is a modern one but that aside all the others are out of production today.

The good tannoy drivers are out of production, their drivers progressively worsened since the 70s.

In ribbons, apogees were quite superior to today's Maggie's and analysis audio

The old quads were better than the new quads

 

[Folsom]

None of the companies can match the investment and the R&D that bell labs put into western electrics. These companies were huge on R&D and moving forward, in comparison today's companies are one man operations plus a bit more, struggling to keep alive.

I'm sorry that's just dumb. No one magically forgot all the R&D from the past. They know all the intricacies more than ever. Concerts, theaters, and stadiums are alive and well. It's fair to say that a lot of them don't sound good though. And there's a lot of arguments that lower accuracy of the past is more appealing to the ear.

AG isn't a good example either, as a company who uses drivers that have different intentions than the likes of pro drivers, but in horns. You're mixing pro and audiophile like they're a direct relationship... They aren't. No one owned big Western Electric speakers in their homes, that isn't who bought them originally.

 

[bonzo75]

I'm sorry that's just dumb. No one magically forgot all the R&D from the past. They know all the intricacies more than ever. Concerts, theaters, and stadiums are alive and well. It's fair to say that a lot of them don't sound good though. And there's a lot of arguments that lower accuracy of the past is more appealing to the ear.

AG isn't a good example either, as a company who uses drivers that have different intentions than the likes of pro drivers, but in horns. You're mixing pro and audiophile like they're a direct relationship... They aren't. No one owned big Western Electric speakers in their homes, that isn't who bought them originally.

No they did. Even western electric itself, the tubes are no more the same. The engineers left and the art was lost. This is well known.

I already mentioned in an earlier post the improvement was regarding size of speakers

 

[Folsom]

Bullshit. Now they just don't make stuff the way you like it - that's very different from saying all the engineering just left planet earth. There are plenty of companies that have only expanded on the technologies that early speaker companies pioneered.

 

[bonzo75]

Bullshit. Now they just don't make stuff the way you like it - that's very different from saying all the engineering just left planet earth. There are plenty of companies that have only expanded on the technologies that early speaker companies pioneered.

I can't help you with your lack of Knowledge

 

[Folsom]

No, you mean my "lack of experience" hearing the stereos you like.