Any reports of Horn and planar users that switched back to Cone Ls .
Or have they mysteriously dissapeared under suspicious circumstances ?
What are the Top Horn Speakers in the World Today? Vox Olympian vs Avantgarde Trio vs ???
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Any reports of Horn and planar users that switched back to Cone Ls .
Or have they mysteriously dissapeared under suspicious circumstances ?
Not all horns are made equal, as are cone speakers and dipoles/planars.
Topology is only one aspect of the speaker’s performance.
I’ve owned AG Duo more than a decade ago, and couldn’t reach a sound I’m able to live with, after 2 years of trying.
Mods, please make sticky. I have always been vocal I would rather have the Magico or the Wilson than the duo
Interesting that TZBC also had them for two years before moving to cones
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We are talking about specific implementations of the technology. Do you have any customers for your speakers who used to have horn speakers? That would be one data point.
A friend had two sets of Klipsch horn speakers. He now plays open-baffle cones.
If your OTLs hadn't broke, you would probably be using Tenor to this day maybe?
Bonzo is calling direct radiators cones , it’s because horns don't use cones ..!
Data point ..?
Yes , as a sciencetisk you understand the depth involved ..!I am sure you did a really deep analysis on this one...
Most direct radiators are cones/domes, no? Might be a bit of an overgeneralization but it's not wrong. Also, it doesn't preclude the use of cones with horns. Plenty of midbass, bass and some midrange drivers in horns are cones...but they are attached to a horn, get it?Bonzo is calling direct radiators cones , it’s because horns don't use cones ..!
Data point ..?
I've had the Fulton J, Fulton Premiere, Fried G3s, Klipsch corner horns, Electro Voice Regencies and Altec corner horns (which employed dual 15" woofers). I've had the Classic Audio T-3s since 1997. They were the first speaker that really did everything: full bandwidth to 20Hz (they easily shook the house), relaxed and resolved at any volume, 98dB, 16 Ohms so really easy to drive and get the most out of our OTLs.
Although this is one of the most musical horn speakers around, I do not think this speaker is suitable for SETs (although many might think they would play fine) owing to its efficiency (most SETs need a speaker that is more like 102 dB or more), unless you have an SET of exceptional power. I mostly used our M-60 triode OTLs on them, which have vastly lower distortion than any SET and it really seemed to me that in my old room (17' by 21') you needed that much power if you were going to play at a lifelike level and still have a relaxed presentation.
The Fulton speakers were resolving but needed a lot of power. The Frieds were easier to drive but didn't have the bottom end of the Fultons (which were good to 16 Hz). The corner horns all had the same frustration despite the liveliness the box speakers could never muster; even though used in a corner, no bass (to be clear on this point I've played string bass since 6th grade so I know what real bass sounds like) and tended to be shrill at higher volumes. I learned much later this latter bit was caused by the diaphragm's breakups rather than the horn taper.
My new room is smaller so I no longer need that kind of power. I suspect now I could get my with only 20 Watts/channel and the amps would still be loafing.
I can only conclude that there is something you aren't telling us because things just don't add up.
A) The T3 is not really 98dB sensitivity (efficiency is a % of electrical power converted to mechanical power (sound pressure)...it is not measured in db) and/or really 16 ohms other than some peaks in the impedance curve
B) Your room is the size of a cathedral and you sit 6 or more meters away
C) You play extraordinarily loud (average levels of 95dB or more)
D) You think that the majority of SETs are like 2-6 watts.
Most SETs do not need 102dB speakers to play sufficiently loud in a normal sized room at a normal listening distance of around 3 meters. Even a good 2A3 amp at around 3.5 watts (we can even call it 1.75 watts if you protest that this rating is bogus) with a 98dB speaker will play much louder without strain than most people want to listen at home. Think about it: with 2 watts, a 98dB speaker like yours with 16 ohms (let's say that this is really true) is really a 101dB 8 ohm equivalent, meaning your speaker only needs 0.5 watts to achieve 98dB. So 2 watts will produce something like103dB! Truly loud in a home. Now, put two together in stereo and add another 3 dB sensitivity and we get something like 106dB for 2 watts. At 3 meters in a typical room you will get no more than 2-3 dB drop off at that distance, putting us back to 103dB/2 watts at 3 meters.
I don't know about you but I play average levels in mid-70s to low 80s. Even with a 20dB crest factor I would not exceed the 2 watts from my amp example. Most recordings have nowhere near the dynamic range to give 20dB peaks from the average...including most classical recordings.
Busy compressed recordings seem to drain more from an amp, ironically, however, even then when you have only maybe 5-6 dB peaks and your average level is 85dB (loud already in a normal room), you will not be anywhere near clipping the amp.
So, I don't buy your argument that most SETs won't work well with the T3, because I just demonstrated for you how it would be no issue, unless you meet some or all of the criteria I have outlined above in A-C.
FWIW, there are LOTs of "exceptional power" SETs on the market these days. Many parallel SET, large transmitter tube, exotic tube and new generation "super" 300bs (like the tubes from Emission labs, 520B, Ayon Branded 62B and 82B, 1625, 300B XLS etc.). All of these make over 15 watts of clean power. Some like the GM70 or the really big Eimac type tubes can make significantly more.
I and my colleagues just did an audio show where we had the 20 watt Aries Cerat Protos with 96dB Odeon Semper loudspeakers. The room was over 60 sq.meters (around 600 sq.ft) and we had the speakers about 1.5 meters from the wall behind the speakers and around 3 meters apart. Seating started at around 2.5 meters to probably about 5 meters away. We had average levels all over but the highest measured was in the mid- 80s, usually more upper 70s dB. Not once did the amp sound strained, even though on paper it is significantly less sensitive (about 5 dB normalized to an 8 ohm rating) and the space was rather large. Would a 2A3 amp work there? Doubtful. Did 20 solid watts work just fine, absolutely.
Bonzo is calling direct radiators cones , it’s because horns don't use cones ..!
Data point ..?
I do not follow the Bonzo reference. I am asking Andro if any of his speaker customers switched from horns to his speakers. If yes, that would be an example of a horn to cone speaker switch, or a data point.
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