What’s with the ‘this amp, it’s really good for small scale music’ thing

christoph

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Dec 12, 2015
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I've tried that with my 90 watt ML1.1's into the Hartsfields, it's not working.
What is the efficiency of the (yours are originals, right?) Hartsfields?
Are you driving them with ML2 now?
 

Gregm

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Mar 14, 2019
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I believe decent amps should play all music well, not just the ‘small stuff’. (...)
As Ive clearly stated and often, it’s IMHO
Unless it's a matter of semantics, I am sure everyone agrees that an amp should... amplify the input signal without imposing musical preferences of its own :) .
However, a low powered amp hooked on to a low sensitivity speaker will NOT play "big stuff" (i.e. a complex orchestral passage) -- it just does not output the energy required to do so. It MIGHT play "small stuff", preferably without dynamic swings, but even there it's iffy.
But that is not an immediate indicator of bad design, just low power!
 
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Cableman

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Dec 27, 2013
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Unless it's a matter of semantics, I am sure everyone agrees that an amp should... amplify the input signal without imposing musical preferences of its own :) .
However, a low powered amp hooked on to a low sensitivity speaker will NOT play "big stuff" (i.e. a complex orchestral passage) -- it just does not output the energy required to do so. It MIGHT play "small stuff", preferably without dynamic swings, but even there it's iffy.
But that is not an immediate indicator of bad design, just low power!
So why would you even entertain an amp-speaker combo that doesn’t (also) do ‘big stuff’ competently?
 
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Cableman

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Yes, but although matching is needed it easily happens most of the time, as most amplifiers have input impedance over 40 kohms. But it should always be checked and unfortunately there is not a solid rule for this mathcing - the oftern referred x10 rule is a joke.

IMHO many people using high efficiency speakers run they preamplifiers at excessively low volume settings due to excessive gain, but they seem happy with such practice.
Someone, I can’t recall who, told me there was a problem in my system ( there isn’t ) that was due to a mismatched pre and power. As I pointed out that must surely be a problem for Audiopax who manufacture both components. (sarc off)

The issue was in fact the lack of gain on the Ypsilon phonostage which was subsequently swapped out for a Tom Evans MasterGroove though it was a toss up between that and a Vitus Audio phono. Problem solved.

Volume is CRUCIAL. I wish people would take more care to set their volume correctly. Too low or two high and you’re just not getting the best sound. My experience is every room has a ‘right’ volume. Get it spot on and you’re good to go as the music is more effortless it breathes it flows it engulfs you. One should NEVER set it deliberately low.
 
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Gregm

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So why would you even entertain an amp-speaker combo that doesn’t (also) do ‘big stuff’ competently?
I wouldn't. Why would anyone???
 

christoph

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Dec 12, 2015
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The Hartsfields are 16 ohms and 104 dB efficient. I’m powering them with the SIT-3 (10 watts into 16 ohms) and they sound fantastic. I’m patiently waiting for a pair of ML2’s to surface so I can buy them.

Thanks for the info

Did you sell the ML1.1?
I thought the ML1.1 are far rarer than the ML2
 

nirodha

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Aug 11, 2010
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Sorry you felt it was misleading. The point I believe I was making is that a decent amp should perform equally well whatever you throw at it. Being consistent, the same applies to a phonostage (The manufacturer was equally confounded and helped all they could). I never had the same issue with ANY other phonostage The Ypsilon didn’t so it had to go.
You could also state: every loudspeaker should facilitate every amp to produce any kind of music in a decent way. loudspeakers that put a burden on amps should be burned at the stake:p
 

Cableman

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Dec 27, 2013
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You could also state: every loudspeaker should facilitate every amp to produce any kind of music in a decent way. loudspeakers that put a burden on amps should be burned at the stakeI could big that would bd oleum silly.
You could also state: every loudspeaker should facilitate every amp to produce any kind of music in a decent way. loudspeakers that put a burden on amps should be burned at the stake:p
I could but that would be just plain silly and no help to anyone
 

Cableman

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Dec 27, 2013
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Of course it would be helpful. Would you recommend your Audiopax amps to someone with Magicos? In a word without many dealers, many people don't understand proper system matching.
I would never recommend Audiopax to anyone particularly if they tried to follow the manufacturers ridiculous instructions on how to set the utterly genius and truly groundbreaking timbre lock device which, I’m gonna go out in a limb here, and suggest you’ve never tried to master.
 

stehno

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Jul 5, 2014
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Any decent amp irrespective of price must be able to produce ALL MUSIC from the sweetest whimsical female vocal to in your face head banging rock to full scale classical drama. If it can’t do that toss it and move on

No amp is worth it’s salt if it’s only really good for the proverbial ‘small scale stuff’.

You're absolutely correct. A musical note is nothing more than an input signal and an input signal is always an input signal, right? Hence, at least theoretically no component should be able to discrimate between scales, genres, venues, pace, dynamics, volumes, audible distortions, etc. And based on my limited experience most do not to a very good extent anyway.

However, I suspect your premise for asking the question is misleading. Your question seems to imply the blame belongs to the component for such shortcomings / limitations when my albeit limited experience tells me the component actually has very little to do with these things. Instead, what I find is what we do with the the components and especially what we do to absolutely minimize local and universal distortions is what ultimately determines a component and playback system's level of performance / shortcomings including those you mentioned here.

IOW, it really is true when you hear others including me say, it's not what we have that matters so much - rather it's what we do with what we have that makes all the difference in the world.

I qualify this with the presumption that we're talking reasonably designed or better components and not necessarily components one might acquire at Walmart or even Best Buy.
 

dcathro

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Sep 16, 2016
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Simple low powered amps tend to sound better than complex high powered amps. The problem is the modern penchant for really inefficient low impedance speakers. There was an Apogee speaker in the late 80's that could only be driven by one or two monster Krells. I don't think that means all other amps are rubbish.
 

morricab

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Apr 25, 2014
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The ML1.1 are quite rare. I have them listed on Audiogon right now for sale. I've had a few bites so far, it should sell soon.
What was the mismatch? I would have thought push/pull triode would work well.
 

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