What’s with the ‘this amp, it’s really good for small scale music’ thing

[Hear Here]

Solid state is the future and I’m ‘ not up to it’. Tell me again where exactly you prove I’m not ‘up to it’. I’ll continue to be respectful. I hope you will be too.

oh and thanks for agreeing with me that decent amps should play all types of music and not favour ‘small stuff’ over others.

You are very welcome to express your views and I'm sure we all respect them. However if we feel they are fundamentally wrong, I trust you will respect our views. It's been suggested that some of your statements are simply wrong, but you don't seem to want to consider that and have taken a someway over-defensive stance.

I'm often wrong and accept this when someone points out the folly of my ways. I'm pretty thick-skinned so I move on after eating humble pie if appropriate! It really doesn’t matter if we have differing views.

The other point I made is that, if a forum user (of any forum) is involved in the trade that the forum is discussing, it is normal (and polite) practice to announce this by stating it clearly in your Signature or Profile. Most audio forum users also consider that it is helpful to others that their equipment is listed so they can appreciate your preferences and choices in this hobby. That's “hobby” to most of us - maybe the “means of making a living” to those in the trade!

Am I being a bit harsh? I hope not, as it was you who started this thread by picking up an honestly-expressed opinion of mine from another thread on a particular piece of first class equipment.

 

[jeff1225]

Solid state is the future and I’m ‘ not up to it’. Tell me again where exactly you prove I’m not ‘up to it’. I’ll continue to be respectful. I hope you will be too.

oh and thanks for agreeing with me that decent amps should play all types of music and not favour ‘small stuff’ over others.

Again, it’s all about system matching. Your Audiopax 88 SET amps could never drive the B&W speakers at Abby Road for anything but “small music.”

 

[Cableman]

I was referring to the Ypsilon preamp being a mismatch with your Audiopax amps. The Ypsilon would clearly be a mismatch with just 16db of gain and an output impedance of 150 ohms. The Audiopax preamp on the other hand has 23 dB of gain and an output impedance of 45 ohms.

This is not evident of bad designs, just choices manufacturers make. Unfortunately with the demise of dealers, many people make similar mistakes of mismatching components.

The guys behind Ypsilon sent me various SUTs that they were convinced would be a solution. It wasn’t and they weren’t. This thread relates to decent amps handling all musical styles, and I stick by that belief. Apologies if I misunderstood you re Ypsilon.

 

[Cableman]

Again, it’s all about system matching. Your Audiopax 88 SET amps could never drive the B&W speakers at Abby Road for anything but “small music.”

And how do you know this? Have you worked at Abbey Road?

more to the point of this thread. Have you actually every heard a correctly set Audiopax Model88?

 

[christoph]

I’ve worked on many sides of both the music and hifi industries. Record label owner. Artist Management Producer Mixer Concert Promoter. Hifi Dealer Distributor and now Manufacturer.

Shouldn't you declare your industry ties?

 

[Cableman]

Shouldn't you declare your industry ties?

Im not here to promote. I have zero vested interests in anything I have posted. I intend to keep it that way. If that is unacceptable I’ll leave.

 

[Argonaut]

Ok

 

[Cableman]

You are very welcome to express your views and I'm sure we all respect them. However if we feel they are fundamentally wrong, I trust you will respect our views. It's been suggested that some of your statements are simply wrong, but you don't seem to want to consider that and have taken a someway over-defensive stance.

I'm often wrong and accept this when someone points out the folly of my ways. I'm pretty thick-skinned so I move on after eating humble pie if appropriate! It really doesn’t matter if we have differing views.

The other point I made is that, if a forum user (of any forum) is involved in the trade that the forum is discussing, it is normal (and polite) practice to announce this by stating it clearly in your Signature or Profile. Most audio forum users also consider that it is helpful to others that their equipment is listed so they can appreciate your preferences and choices in this hobby. That's “hobby” to most of us - maybe the “means of making a living” to those in the trade!

Am I being a bit harsh? I hope not, as it was you who started this thread by picking up an honestly-expressed opinion of mine from another thread on a particular piece of first class equipment.

Granted your comment on another thread prompted my OP but I never once referred to you and wouldn’t as I have no interest in attacking others on here with their wealth of knowhow enthusiasm and above all passion.

 

[Cableman]

Ok

After you

 

[PeterA]

Im not here to promote. I have zero vested interests in anything I have posted. I intend to keep it that way. If that is unacceptable I’ll leave.

Given your moniker, I would presume that you manufacture cables and demonstrate them at shows with various amplifiers and speaker combinations. Perhaps you take the same amplifier everywhere.

Can I ask you if you think the amplifier speaker matching is important for optimal Sound?

 

[Cableman]

You are very welcome to express your views and I'm sure we all respect them. However if we feel they are fundamentally wrong, I trust you will respect our views. It's been suggested that some of your statements are simply wrong, but you don't seem to want to consider that and have taken a someway over-defensive stance.

I'm often wrong and accept this when someone points out the folly of my ways. I'm pretty thick-skinned so I move on after eating humble pie if appropriate! It really doesn’t matter if we have differing views.

The other point I made is that, if a forum user (of any forum) is involved in the trade that the forum is discussing, it is normal (and polite) practice to announce this by stating it clearly in your Signature or Profile. Most audio forum users also consider that it is helpful to others that their equipment is listed so they can appreciate your preferences and choices in this hobby. That's “hobby” to most of us - maybe the “means of making a living” to those in the trade!

Am I being a bit harsh? I hope not, as it was you who started this thread by picking up an honestly-expressed opinion of mine from another thread on a particular piece of first class equipment.

To be clear I am catagorically not in the trade that the thread is discussing. And yup I still fundamentally stand by my comments re decent amps.

 

[Cableman]

Given your moniker, I would presume that you manufacture cables and demonstrate them at shows with various amplifiers and speaker combinations. Perhaps you take the same amplifier everywhere.

Can I ask you if you think the amplifier speaker matching is important for optimal Sound?

Hi Peter. My previous comment stands. I’m not here to promote and nothing I have stated contravenes that. I believe decent amps should play all music well, not just the ‘small stuff’. Apparently I’m fundamentally wrong according to some. Fine.
As Ive clearly stated and often, it’s IMHO

 

[jeff1225]

And how do you know this? Have you worked at Abbey Road?

more to the point of this thread. Have you actually every heard a correctly set Audiopax Model88?

Google shows the system (see picture below). B&W speakers with big solid state amps to drive them.

I've heard the Audiopax many times, always with extremely efficient speakers like Avantgards. With the right speakers, they are fantastic sounding amps and actually one of my favorites after Lamm.

 

[Argonaut]

Well well… this certainly narrows you down somewhat, I shall have a conversation with Pedro on Monday

@Cableman
” Sorry to be a curmudgeon but I urge caution when it comes to reviews by British journalists of anything distributed by Absolute Sounds. IMO they, and Colloms is by no means alone ( a certain double K wins hands down) , tend to be somewhat over enthusiastic when reviewing their brands. Again just my opinion ( borne out by reading years of hifi news et al etc reviews )

In not dissing Colloms measurements which I have no doubt are accurate. But I do doubt their overall relevance in regards listening experiences. Yet to hear a test bench make music.”

Oh and I forgot to say. I’m an ex Absolute Sounds dealer

 

[Hear Here]

I never once referred to you and wouldn’t as I have no interest in attacking others on here with their wealth of knowhow enthusiasm and above all passion.

To be clear I am catagorically not in the trade that the thread is discussing.

Read my post again - you quoted a POST of mine in another thread with the inference that I was wrong. That's OK but please don't deny it.

You have already admitted in this thread that you ARE in the trade that this forum is set up to discuss - audio equipment for music reproduction.

 

[microstrip]

Any decent amp irrespective of price must be able to produce ALL MUSIC from the sweetest whimsical female vocal to in your face head banging rock to full scale classical drama. If it can’t do that toss it and move on

No amp is worth it’s salt if it’s only really good for the proverbial ‘small scale stuff’.

Everyone will have an agreement or disagreement statement about this post, but the critical point is what you mean by "decent" in this sentence. IMHO the high-end audiophiles want amplifiers that please their own preferences in their systems, not what has been typically called a "decent" amplifier by people such as Peter Walker, Douglas Self or even many speaker manufacturers and audio scholars.

 

[PeterA]

Hi Peter. My previous comment stands. I’m not here to promote and nothing I have stated contravenes that. I believe decent amps should play all music well, not just the ‘small stuff’. Apparently I’m fundamentally wrong according to some. Fine.
As Ive clearly stated and often, it’s IMHO

I think there are two discussions going on here. There is an amplifier playing small scale in large scale well and there’s an amplifier being able to drive an inefficient or efficient speaker well.

My Lamm ML2 SET amps are considered fairly decent. They put out 18 W of power. Their 16 ohm tap drives my vintage corner horn speakers extremely well and to my ears without distortion and to extremely loud levels. They sound great with both small scale and large scale music.

However, the same amps in the same system and room sounded quite good on my former inefficient Magico Q3 Speakers but they could not do justice to large scale music. The Lamm M1.1 100 watt hybrid amplifiers sounded much better.

Should I conclude that my SET amplifier is not “decent”?

 

[microstrip]

(...) Preamps must be carefully matched with amps, specifically when it comes to the input impedance of the amps and output gain of the preamp (...)

Yes, but although matching is needed it easily happens most of the time, as most amplifiers have input impedance over 40 kohms. But it should always be checked and unfortunately there is not a solid rule for this mathcing - the oftern referred x10 rule is a joke.

IMHO many people using high efficiency speakers run they preamplifiers at excessively low volume settings due to excessive gain, but they seem happy with such practice.

 

[Hear Here]

My Lamm ML2 SET amps are considered fairly decent. They put out 18 W of power. Their 16 ohm tap drives my vintage corner horn speakers extremely well and to my ears without distortion and to extremely loud levels. They sound great with both small scale and large scale music.

Yes, that amp is excellent driving your horn speakers and doubtless can do justice to small and big scale music. The amp that initiated this absurd thread is the Art Audio PX-25. Not 18 watts like your Lamm, but just 6 watts. It would excel with your horn speakers with small scale music, but would struggle with big orchestral stuff - just as your Lamm would with low sensitivity electrostatic for example.

I just don't understand why the OP cannot accept this simple fact of amplifier life!

Should I conclude that my SET amplifier is not “decent”?

I certainly wouldn't but it seems the OP would in his words "toss it and move on"

 

[jeff1225]

Yes, but although matching is needed it easily happens most of the time, as most amplifiers have input impedance over 40 kohms. But it should always be checked and unfortunately there is not a solid rule for this mathcing - the oftern referred x10 rule is a joke.

IMHO many people using high efficiency speakers run they preamplifiers at excessively low volume settings due to excessive gain, but they seem happy with such practice.

I've tried that with my 90 watt ML1.1's into the Hartsfields, it's not working.