"Voicing" and its incidence in audio electronics

IanG-UK

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Apr 11, 2011
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Many of us might define “voicing” as the fine tuning of their audio system to gain an optimal match of source, amplifier, speaker, cables, room and personal preference.

And some manufacturers might admit to voicing their loudspeakers on the grounds that (a) such a device is far from perfect when compared with the standards set by audio electronics* and/or (b) such a device can be tweaked to provide an assessed optimal match for its typical room and position therein and/or (c) it appears more credible to tweak a component with an aural output rather than one outputting digits and/or voltage.

But how many manufacturers voice** their electronics and admit to doing so, particularly in relation to high end equipment where the budgetary compromises are nil or minor? And, if any such manufacturers do voice their electronics - this being defined as subjective adjustment by listeners after technologists, engineers and acousticians have designed a product specification and delivered an outcome which objectively best fits that brief - how do they define what constitutes appropriate voicing?

My bet is that, were an established and industry-recognised member of this forum to write to all high end established and non-trivial audio electronics manufacturers, few (if any) would say that they voiced and how that voicing was accomplished.

Views?

* I have participated in double blind loudspeaker testing (with some identifiable success) but hardly ever even heard of double blind audio electronics testing and can only recall two published attempts to do so in the UK some 40 years ago where the results failed to identify audible differences at a statistically significant level

** “dCS DACs are most definitely not voiced for a particular sound” (Darko interview)
 

Atmasphere

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I have no idea how one would go about 'voicing' an amplifier or preamp!

I've very specifically stayed away from anything like that for a very simple reason: if 'voiced' it will only work with certain product. IOW this is the same thing as 'synergy' (another nasty topic) which should also be avoided.

IOW I encourage everyone to put together a system based on strengths of the individual pieces rather than each metaphoically leaning on each other like a house of cards.

If you work with voicing or synergies, what happens is you build something inferior (it will have a coloration and greater distortion). Any manufacturer will want their stuff to work with as wide a range of associated product as possible. I do get the irony as an OTL manufacturer that we have to be careful about what speakers our customers use. But our customers have a wide range of speakers available. And our preamps (which were the first balanced line preamps made anywhere) are actually our best selling products. So certainly the equipment matching issue is very much with us, but that is very different from 'voicing' or the like.


So yeah, I play into your prediction that I won't admit to such a thing, but I'm also taking it a step further- if you voice something, it will be inherently inferior.
 

microstrip

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IMHO we will have a semantics debate on the meaning of "voicing" to different people, not a debate on how manufacturers do it.
 

PeterA

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Some electronics designers circulate prototypes over a period of time during the design process for listener feedback as the design is finalized and before it’s considered a finished product.

The amps and preamps are listened to in employees’ home systems for feedback and comments and adjustments are made.

Is this considered “voicing” the product?
 

Direct Drive

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Voicing is certainly possible. Capacitors jn the signal path being the obvious. I have done so in my DIY projects.
A prototype direct drive tt I have been involved in, we have been able to voice, as have many, by changing platter materials. But equally components in the PSU have had an effect, particularly the bass depth. I first came upon this with an Aphalson Sonata in the 1980s. On Mike Knowles recommendation, the designer, I upgraded withe external Hercules PSU. It was quite astonishing. I can't explain why, but arguably it is voicing as different component brands/types change the sonic signature.

Of course many components are probably voiced by virtue of the cost of components. Marantz's ken ishiwata used "voice" some of his components. Sony used market certain models as voiced for UK market back in the 1980s.
 
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Atmasphere

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Some electronics designers circulate prototypes over a period of time during the design process for listener feedback as the design is finalized and before it’s considered a finished product.

The amps and preamps are listened to in employees’ home systems for feedback and comments and adjustments are made.

Is this considered “voicing” the product?
No. This is the sort of thing you do to find out if you covered all the bases- things such as grounding, reliability, equipment compatability or the like.
 

thedudeabides

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All hi end manufacturers, assuming they don't rely solely on measurements, listen to and voice their products.
 

thedudeabides

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We've never voiced our products but we do listen to them once we see that they are performing on the bench.
With all due respect, are you saying that you've never tweaked (voiced) a product after all bench tests have met specified criteria regardless of the results of your listening session(s)?
 
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Atmasphere

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With all due respect, are you saying that you've never tweaked (voiced) a product after all bench tests have met specified criteria regardless of the results of your listening session(s)?
That is correct. Once you understand what the rules of human hearing are and how that relates to engineering to achieve your goal, its not that hard to insure that it will work if it does what its supposed to do on the bench. To be clear though, we've auditioned parts after checking their specs and are careful not to use junk. To this end we were the first high end audio company to use Caddock resistors in our products (1979) and we started out using polystyrene capacitors about the same time. So you could make the argument that this is semantic, since those parts we selected way back then did lend a voice (that of good quality) to our products. We also install a wire built to our specs in all our products. We didn't audition that wire, but we knew what was needed to work properly for us and it did. That comes from engineering, not audition.

IMO you can certainly audition stuff to make it work, but you can also engineer it to work too. To give you an example, recently someone on this site sent an amp to us that had buzz problems. Looking at the circuit, which was very traditional, it was obvious without even turning it on where the problems were that caused it to buzz. We fixed them and on the bench it seemed to measure well so we put it in the system and it was dead silent. We shipped it back and the guy found it quiet on his system too. So my opinion is that I think there are a good number of manufacturers in high end audio that substitute voicing for actual engineering. Put another way- engineer it right and no need for voicing. But you'd be silly to not listen to it. We're all human so we can make mistakes.
 

DaveC

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Well, you have to pick the part, and it has a sound. Different caps, resistors, wire, etc. all have a sound and you are forced to pick parts to use. Just like vacuum tubes sound different, so do all parts used in a circuit or in a cable.

Other aspects of the component or cable may be designed 100% objectively, such as the circuit design in an amp or the geometry of wires in a cable. These can be objectively defined to have certain electrical characteristics the designer feels is most favorable, but the designer still has to choose which circuit or geometry to use, and that's often based on experience, personal preference, and cost as well as the objective performance of the choice and their tradeoffs... So I think in general the designer has a circuit in mind, for example push-pull vs SET, and that's probably decided from the start. Another example is driving the decision may be cost and efficiency, if you need higher power getting there with a SET might be too expensive or create too much heat.

The sound of certain parts is much harder to quantify and define, so I believe "voicing" when choosing parts is better than choosing parts only based on the datasheet. In this case I'd argue your component or cable is going to be voiced anyways, but the final result will have quite a bit of luck involved. OTOH, if you listen to each part you can choose your poison, as it's all a compromise involving different aspects of the sound along with price. In a SET amp, changing out one cap or one resistor can make for a significant change in the character of the amp, if you leave this up to chance it's a roll of the dice exactly what the end result will sound like. It is possible, although unlikely, to have good engineering design but just so happen to choose a very colored-sounding resistor (for example, those green Kiwame carbon resistors) or cap that will have a major effect on the sound of the amp.
 

microstrip

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That is correct. Once you understand what the rules of human hearing are and how that relates to engineering to achieve your goal, its not that hard to insure that it will work if it does what its supposed to do on the bench. To be clear though, we've auditioned parts after checking their specs and are careful not to use junk. To this end we were the first high end audio company to use Caddock resistors in our products (1979) and we started out using polystyrene capacitors about the same time. So you could make the argument that this is semantic, since those parts we selected way back then did lend a voice (that of good quality) to our products. We also install a wire built to our specs in all our products. We didn't audition that wire, but we knew what was needed to work properly for us and it did. That comes from engineering, not audition.

IMO you can certainly audition stuff to make it work, but you can also engineer it to work too. To give you an example, recently someone on this site sent an amp to us that had buzz problems. Looking at the circuit, which was very traditional, it was obvious without even turning it on where the problems were that caused it to buzz. We fixed them and on the bench it seemed to measure well so we put it in the system and it was dead silent. We shipped it back and the guy found it quiet on his system too. So my opinion is that I think there are a good number of manufacturers in high end audio that substitute voicing for actual engineering. Put another way- engineer it right and no need for voicing. But you'd be silly to not listen to it. We're all human so we can make mistakes.

Ralph,

Did you listen to the effects of changing the current in the input cascode stage of the Mk3.1 version before deciding the value to go in production?
 

Atmasphere

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Ralph,

Did you listen to the effects of changing the current in the input cascode stage of the Mk3.1 version before deciding the value to go in production?
No. We first worked with it on the bench until we were satisfied that it was working better. That change got a variety of tests- noise, gain, distortion and bandwidth; also it was tested to see how wide our margins were with different tubes. Once it was showing an obvious improvement in all areas we set up an amplifier with that as the change and played it. Not surprisingly it sounded better. So that became part of production.
 
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