Videos of Acoustically-Coupled Audio Recordings

[ack]

Sorry Peter, that's not the impression I get, specially here at WBF. When I see people comparing Munich rooms, and arriving at absolute conclusions and judgements, without ever setting foot there, all through videos, that's plain disturbing (to me).

Absolutely well said...

 

[the sound of Tao]

Judging any system in terms of absolutes is fraught with danger at the very best of times. I’m not thinking too many of us would make any absolute judgements on a system based on a video... highend recorded on a Neumann or even just Joe average captured on a Samsung. We all have waaay too much experience invested in this to fall for such a trap.

But I equally challenge all those who then seem to have no issue with making absolute judgements on a system or a component based on say the limited experience of hearing something for an afternoon in a store or a show or simply within the context of another’s system... or even within the limited capacity of listening briefly (like a matter of a few days) or even just in the context of just any one system... dare I say it if that is very their own system. Absolute judgements take an investment of long periods of time. To be honest absolutes just don’t work in this sport very often any way.

I think it’s too easy to read too much into what can be understood from the sound off video unless it is held within the inferences and in the barest of or relative terms... but I don’t believe anybody here was really going for these video judgements in absolute terms. Perhaps rather just some fun and to share a bit of the happiness as Tang so beautifully framed it.

 

[PeterA]

Those opposed to these videos don't want the rest of us to use them to form "absolute conclusions and judgements" about the sound of a particular system. The rest of us seem to be saying that we are not using them to form "absolute conclusions and judgements" about the sound of particular systems. So, it seems to me that we agree on this. At least, most of us do.

Perhaps we can also agree that each of us is free to enjoy these videos for what they do offer or we can simply not watch them. Shouldn't it really be up to the viewer?

There is a concern that WBF memgers are watching the Munich 2019 videos and forming opinions about the sound of these systems in absolute terms. I just looked up the WBF threads about the Munich show. I could not find where WBF members discuss the quality of sound of the systems from the few videos that are posted here. Perhaps I did not look in the right place. Can someone provide a link to show where people are reaching such absolute conclusions?

 

[bonzo75]

Munich itself is an inaccurate way to form impressions about being there in person except very few rooms which might work. The videos there don't give the impressions of the gear but the impressions of the room. I have been going to Munich for 6 years and know many rooms well and the very few videos I chose to put up reflect accurately my impressions of the rooms in person, where most (not all) gear I know well from outside Munich.

 

[bonzo75]

The other alternative is to do a search on the forum and if a few people have mentioned the same brand over and over, to just blindly buy it. You can also start your own thread of amp A vs amp B and buy based on responses by accepting only the ones that confirm your already made up opinion

 

[asiufy]

Interesting that, in your world, if one's considering a high-end audio purchase, it's either videos or online forum reading. Apparently, dealers do not exist in that particular reality of yours.

 

[bonzo75]

Most dealers I know only stock high margin equipment where manufacturers spend a lot on marketing and visibility in hifi shows. Very rare the equipment I want to buy for sonics. Some are good and teach me a lot but there is a lot of equipment to be found online not at regular dealers. It is silly to make absolute judgements on online information but that helps in short listing for further investigation

 

[bonzo75]

The other alternative is to do a search on the forum and if a few people have mentioned the same brand over and over, to just blindly buy it. You can also start your own thread of amp A vs amp B and buy based on responses by accepting only the ones that confirm your already made up opinion

So those who didn't get this, this was a dig at those who use this method and think videos are the wrong way

 

[Mike Lavigne]

The other alternative is to do a search on the forum and if a few people have mentioned the same brand over and over, to just blindly buy it. You can also start your own thread of amp A vs amp B and buy based on responses by accepting only the ones that confirm your already made up opinion

nothing wrong with video's. nothing wrong with spending money based on video's.

but to somehow denigrate alternate ways of making buying decisions or even forming opinions is not right. do some here and in society become lambs led to the slaughter by the frequency of which any odd thing gets mentioned? of course.....some do.

are video's essential?

are they reliable?

where were we before video's?

will i be able to sleep tonight without watching hifi video's? on my laptop?

 

[bonzo75]

nothing wrong with video's. nothing wrong with spending money based on video's.

but to somehow denigrate alternate ways of making buying decisions or even forming opinions is not right. do some here and in society become lambs led to the slaughter by the frequency of which any odd thing gets mentioned? of course.....some do.

are video's essential?

are they reliable?

where were we before video's?

will i be able to sleep tonight without watching hifi video's? on my laptop?

I am actually saying there isn't one way. There is a host of information, all of it can be misused or wisely used. That includes videos, forum opinions, reviews, etc

 

[Al M.]

Interesting that, in your world, if one's considering a high-end audio purchase, it's either videos or online forum reading. Apparently, dealers do not exist in that particular reality of yours.

I would never have bought my amplification without prior auditioning. Fortunately I have a dealer who had a brand (Octave) that satisfied my needs. I don't buy expensive equipment on others' opinions.

For those who complain about lack of dealers in their area: if for example you have the money for a speaker of $ 30K and upward, you also have the 2 to 3 thousand dollars that it takes to buy plane tickets and hotel stay for visiting dealers and perhaps even fellow WBF members around the country to audition the potential speakers on your list. And stop watching silly videos, or putting too much stock into online opinions or reviews.

 

[KeithR]

People do use the videos to judge absolute sound quality, and not with any of the caveats mentioned by some on this thread. My old dealer once told me that a potential customer reported to him that he already had compared all the speakers that had interested him. The dealer asked him how, and the guy replied "I was listening on YouTube the whole day yesterday". Seriously.

Draw your own conclusions. I know my dealer did...

Smh. Your dealer got a call and an interested new client out of that dumb video. Poor thing!

Do people want this hobby to die? Please force them to bring CDs into a dealership to initially access audio and assess interest.

You guys are living in 1999, not 2019. No wonder its an AARP convention at every show i visit- Ron, please post the video outside of @asiufy's room from last weekend.

Unsubscribed.

 

[microstrip]

Except for the XLF and the DCS Vivaldi I got all my current equipment without listening to it previously in adequate conditions or even seeing it. In fact, I never had poor surprises with equipment - although several situations were really challenging.

This to say that I consider that WBF members are not a representative sample of typical high-end customers.

 

[KeithR]

One last thing, the same people ripping on videos should do the same on audio shows, listening in any seat other than a sweet spot, or listening in a dealer's treated room which is nothing like they have at home. At least be consistent.

 

[bonzo75]

Except for the XLF and the DCS Vivaldi I got all my current equipment without listening to it previously in adequate conditions or even seeing it. In fact, I never had poor surprises with equipment - although several situations were really challenging.

This to say that I consider that WBF members are not a representative sample of typical high-end customers.

Ok, I thought you had bought all your equipment without listening to it but hey surprise

 

[PeterA]

And stop watching silly videos, or putting too much stock into online opinions or reviews.

Al, You know I form opinions about gear slowly and deliberately, and through direct listening. However, I think each of us should be free to choose for ourselves whether or not we should stop watching these "silly" videos, or putting too much stock into online opinions or reviews. I have also learned a lot from online opinions and reviews, especially here on WBF. I have even met some really nice audio friends (you and Tasos, for instance) by first reading their posts on forums, respecting their opinions, seeing images of their systems and then contacting them through the site and eventually getting together to meet. That would likely not have happened any other way.

I also would never have bought my SME 3012R were it not for online opinions and reviews. No dealer, magazine or friend owned this arm when I first read about it. Ian had never heard it before he bought it. I learned about it first online a couple of years ago and now I have a fun project ahead of me. I guess I will soon find out for myself how it sounds in my system and how it compares to my other SME arm. I may share those impressions on WBF and others may read them and learn somethings too. Forums and videos are now a part of the hobby, at least for many here on WBF, including some dealers and manufacturers. We can all choose whether or not to embrace them. But it seems to me that it is our choice to make.

 

[asiufy]

I am actually saying there isn't one way. There is a host of information, all of it can be misused or wisely used. That includes videos, forum opinions, reviews, etc

I do agree with you now, but that is not what you just wrote. You basically gave two options, video and online forums.

 

[Al M.]

Al, You know I form opinions about gear slowly and deliberately, and through direct listening. However, I think each of us should be free to choose for ourselves whether or not we should stop watching these "silly" videos, or putting too much stock into online opinions or reviews. I have also learned a lot from online opinions and reviews, especially here on WBF. I have even met some really nice audio friends (you and Tasos, for instance) by first reading their posts on forums, respecting their opinions, seeing images of their systems and then contacting them through the site and eventually getting together to meet. That would likely not have happened any other way.

Sure, Peter, but meeting people on forums, then in person and listening to their systems is very different from basing purchases of unheard expensive gear on forum opinions.

I also would never have bought my SME 3012R were it not for online opinions and reviews. No dealer, magazine or friend owned this arm when I first read about it. Ian had never heard it before he bought it. I learned about it first online a couple of years ago and now I have a fun project ahead of me. I guess I will soon find out for myself how it sounds in my system and how it compares to my other SME arm. I may share those impressions on WBF and others may read them and learn somethings too. Forums and videos are now a part of the hobby, at least for many here on WBF, including some dealers and manufacturers. We can all choose whether or not to embrace them. But it seems to me that it is our choice to make.

Absolutely, I also bought my Yggdrasil DAC based on reviews and forum opinions only. Yet this was, just like the 3012R arm, compared to other gear expenses, not a high dollar and thus high risk purchase. I also bought my rather expensive speakers unheard, but that was based on my previous extensive experience with the lower monitor model of Reference 3A, established trust in the brand as great value for money, and importantly, backed by a return option. Just like for the Yggdrasil DAC.

 

[RogerD]

Anyway.....how many audio sales people have had customers walk in and say "I heard X speaker and preamp on you tube and how much is the cost? I want to purchase them.
Now in my experience...the salesman will without a doubt start asking questions.
If he doesn't he's not a good salesman. Just my opinion and that's why I think this thread is let's say not realistic....overblown.
And if the customer buys on line...that's the way it goes.

 

[microstrip]

Ok, I thought you had bought all your equipment without listening to it but hey surprise

You think too much about my system. You really need one to your self ...