VAC Master preamp vs ARC Ref 6SE

[craigr]

I am considering an "upgrade" from my ARC REF6SE preamp to a VAC Master preamp. Unfortunately, there is no way for me to actually hear the VAC and/or compare with my REF 6SE and hence I would appreciate hearing (pun) from anyone who has been able to do the comparison.

Of course, the other components will make a difference, so my system consists of:
Sonus Faber Il Cremonese speakers
AMG Viella turntable
Soundsmith Strain Gauge cartridge and its proprietary phonoamp
dCS Rossini Apex DAC
ARC Ref 6SE preamp
d'Agostino Momentum MxV stereo amp
Shunyata omega interconnects, speaker cables and Sigma power cords with an Everest conditioner

Note: I did replace the ARC tubes recently; they now have about 60 hours. This might explain my comments as to its sound and perhaps this negates the need to try anything else (i.e. insufficient break in).

Equally importantly, I suspect, I listen only to classical and jazz, mostly the former. I do appreciate proper timbre of instruments, good separation and articulation (but not "clinical"), wide/deep sound stage. (Alas, the "usual" criteria). Also, I listen at typically low levels of volume (on the ARC, the volume is usually between 13 and 25 out of 103). I enjoy following individual instruments within the orchestra (the proverbial trees), as well as listening to the forest.

Why the potential change? With the addition of the used DAG amp, I feel that (in contrast to the typical comment regarding solid state amps) the sound is perhaps "too polite", perhaps "laid back", perhaps not as articulate, rich, inspiring, as I would prefer. I do not mean to imply it is truly deficient, that would be misleading. Rather, I just sense there should be more "music". Again, perhaps I am merely being impatient, and all that is required is a longer burn in on the ARC tubes. I (and my bank account) can certainly accept that.

But, the design and internal components of the VAC is entirely different from the ARC, so I would assume there will be a different "sound"... perhaps one I would prefer?

Thank you for your time and effort in responding.
Craig

 

[gadawg58]

While the two preamps do sound very different I would recommend listening to the VAC in your system with your amp before committing to that purchase. If you can't demo one then buying used is a good option because if it doesn't work out you can sell it and usually come close to breaking even. If you like what you have but just want a little bit more the Ref10 might be an option as well. They are all excellent preamps just have their own voicing. That said I'm in the process of ordering a VAC Statement Preamp but that is only after listening in my own system. Good luck!

George

 

[AudioLibertarian]

From the late 80s and on its been known to those who experimented with those two very popular brands, that Audio Research and Krell never matched well. Actually mine dealer back then told me bluntly that those two brands made a VERY poorly sounding combo, (he used much stronger languge) and he carried them both.
Also, if you value truth of timbre the most , you may look at few other brands of speakers, in my experience of course.

 

[puroagave]

It will come down to the sound of the tubes and topology. One uses the 6h30P vs 6dJ8. the Ref 6 is a fully balanced from I/O and the VAC is singled ended with xfmr coupled balanced out. The ARC uses 6 tubes to achieve this, the VAC only two. They both have certain advantages on paper. I had ARC Ref 5 and while it was good, it never really meshed with my Jadis amps, it sounded more SS to me in certain ways. I now have the VAC Sig MkIIa se. It shares the same topology as the Master without the mass-loaded circuit boards and super trick ALPS RK50 pot that both the Master and Statement share.

The VAC in my system is more fleshed out and syncs better with the JA30s. I run everything SE so I can't comment on its SQ through thr xfmrs. That said, the one other thing about ARCs preamps that bug me are the use of VCAs for volume control when the best preamps use a resitor laddder of some sort or high-spec pot. The VCA chips are litterally a few bucks when the RK50 pot costs $2k.

The one other thing I'll mention in the VACs favor is the superb phono stage. 80% of my listening is vinyl and was primary to my choosing the VAC.

 

[Rexp]

I am considering an "upgrade" from my ARC REF6SE preamp to a VAC Master preamp. Unfortunately, there is no way for me to actually hear the VAC and/or compare with my REF 6SE and hence I would appreciate hearing (pun) from anyone who has been able to do the comparison.

Of course, the other components will make a difference, so my system consists of:
Sonus Faber Il Cremonese speakers
AMG Viella turntable
Soundsmith Strain Gauge cartridge and its proprietary phonoamp
dCS Rossini Apex DAC
ARC Ref 6SE preamp
d'Agostino Momentum MxV stereo amp
Shunyata omega interconnects, speaker cables and Sigma power cords with an Everest conditioner

Note: I did replace the ARC tubes recently; they now have about 60 hours. This might explain my comments as to its sound and perhaps this negates the need to try anything else (i.e. insufficient break in).

Equally importantly, I suspect, I listen only to classical and jazz, mostly the former. I do appreciate proper timbre of instruments, good separation and articulation (but not "clinical"), wide/deep sound stage. (Alas, the "usual" criteria). Also, I listen at typically low levels of volume (on the ARC, the volume is usually between 13 and 25 out of 103). I enjoy following individual instruments within the orchestra (the proverbial trees), as well as listening to the forest.

Why the potential change? With the addition of the used DAG amp, I feel that (in contrast to the typical comment regarding solid state amps) the sound is perhaps "too polite", perhaps "laid back", perhaps not as articulate, rich, inspiring, as I would prefer. I do not mean to imply it is truly deficient, that would be misleading. Rather, I just sense there should be more "music". Again, perhaps I am merely being impatient, and all that is required is a longer burn in on the ARC tubes. I (and my bank account) can certainly accept that.

But, the design and internal components of the VAC is entirely different from the ARC, so I would assume there will be a different "sound"... perhaps one I would prefer?

Thank you for your time and effort in responding.
Craig

I demoed a Cambridge Edge NQ streamer/DAC with the Ref 6SE the other day, sounded odd. Things improved when the streamer was connected directly to the power amp, you could try that first.

 

[analogsa]

It will come down to the sound of the tubes and topology. One uses the 6h30P vs 12AX7.

Surely the 12AX7s are not in the line stage, right?

 

[puroagave]

Surely the 12AX7s are not in the line stage, right?

6DJ8, I stand corrected...i had phono stage on my brain which uses 12AX7

 

[Bbock]

Surely the 12AX7s are not in the line stage, right?

Line stage on the VAC are 6922’s and similar.

 

[gtaphile]

I dont mean to sidetrack, however, is the tube you are referring to a standard ARC supplied 6550 which is a new Tung Sol ? If so have you tried the NOS Tung Sol grey plate? I found that the NOS 6550 transformed the pre to another level altogether.

 

[craigr]

graphite:
Thanks for your comment. Yes, I have been using the "new" Tung Sol tubes. Where did you get the NOS tubes? Please elaborate on "transformed the pre to another level"; in what way? Thanks

 

[gtaphile]

At the moment there is limited stock at the well known suppliers but you dont need matched so should be able to pick one up. When you do find one you should hear a large difference across the board (imaging, dynamics, top end openness). In my set-up the stock tube is a large step backwards. Just a thought before you make a wholesale change to eliminate the 6SE.

 

[craigr]

gtaphile: Thank you for the advice. Where did you find your NOS tubes?

 

[thedudeabides]

Sounds like upgradeitis without sufficient justification. As you know, no one can predict which pre you will prefer. Massive amounts of variables.

You have an impressive list of gear. Did you prefer your system before you inserted the DAG? If so, the fix is obvious. And why don't you wait until the tubes burn in? That could be the issue. But if you got the cash and want to try different "flavors", why not. Or, as you said, you could be "patient". Good luck on your hunt.

 

[thedudeabides]

gtaphile: Thank you for the advice. Where did you find your NOS tubes?

Brent Jesse. Really good source. Knows his stuff.

 

[gtaphile]

gtaphile: Thank you for the advice. Where did you find your NOS tubes?

vacuumtubes.net or ebay NOS Tungsol or RCA coke bottle grey plate- they are the same

 

[treitz3]

Brent Jesse. Really good source. Knows his stuff.

Agreed.

Tom

 

[Thieliste]

Hi guys, what is the current MSRP for the VAC Master without Phono in the US ?
Thanks.

 

[Juiced]

Why not a d'Agostino preamp?
Wouldn't it be a better match for the Momentum?

For a jazz lover i would suggest a Kondo or especially a Shindo preamp but i'm sure how does it match with your system..

 

[Bbock]

Hi guys, what is the current MSRP for the VAC Master without Phono in the US ?
Thanks.

I just bought one with the phono stage. I believe the retail price without is either $30,000 or $32,000. $44,000 with phono. Prices have gone up consistent with everything else.

 

[Thieliste]

I just bought one with the phono stage. I believe the retail price without is either $30,000 or $32,000. $44,000 with phono. Prices have gone up consistent with everything else.

Thanks