Tuning Fuses?!

[Steve Williams]

I could put it on a network analyzer and see if it looks any different from each end, non-destructively.

great idea. I for one would be interested in seeing this

 

[ack]

BTW, regarding power outlets and the Furutech GTX-D I got... My system is powered by two double-outlets: a Hubble green-dot (copper contacts) and the GTX (Rhodium-plated copper); one amp is connected to one outlet, the other amp to the other outlet. No difference in sound. Surprised?

 

[Steve Williams]

TBH, I am not surprised Peter. For my use I bought many of the Furutech GTX-DR AC outlets and a pair of the MIT 20 amp AC outlets with noise suppression for no other reason than to obtain a firm and secure lock with my cables which are quite heavy,

Either my hearing is shot or ?? as I am completely dumbfounded that some here state that they can hear the difference between face plates used over their AC outlets. Right

 

[ack]

I take all claims regarding outlets, covers thereof, fuse directionality, grounding holes up/down et al, with a huge grain of salt. Either my ears are shot and can't tell tiny differences, or my system and yours aren't high-res enough.

 

[asiufy]

Have you used any in your system Alexandre

Steve,

I've written earlier in this thread the (negative) effects of Furutech fuses on my system. I haven't tried them on the darTZeel, but I'm thinking about getting those Hi Fi Tuning fuses, and if I do so, I'll get some for the darTZeel as well...


alexandre

 

[ack]

I can confirm everyone else's finding re: Spectral amp fuse replacement with the Hi-Fi Tuning Supremes. It's actually easy to verify by replacing one amp's and going mono: start with the stock fuses, go mono, the image should remain stable by moving your head around; now replace one fuse, do the same, the image is not stable as you move your head around, though we are talking about small differences here. Replace both and you have a stable mono image again, and slightly faster response, which manifests itself in a number of ways; in my brief tests, there is clearly more power to Oistakh's violin (Bruch Scottish Fantasia/Decca; LP or Lim CD) and more so with a plurality of heavy wind instruments blaring at the same time. In my case, it probably helped that I had already replaced the preamp's fuse, and in 1rsw's system there is no preamp.

So like everything else, it all depends; here the results are evident, so much so that I ordered another one for my Alpha DAC; my phono is fuse-less. It feels like the difference is in the wiring material, and I didn't bother with "directionality", though I did measure them and there are no diodes in there (that would have been really silly).

 

[GaryProtein]

Regarding the arrow on the fuse, I read elsewhere that the manufacturer said it was just part of the logo and NOT meant to indicate direction. So let the placebos make you happy.

 

[mep]

Regarding the arrow on the fuse, I read elsewhere that the manufacturer said it was just part of the logo and NOT meant to indicate direction. So let the placebos make you happy.

Theoretically, there can be no *direction* in a fuse, especially one used in the AC portion of the power supply. I have never used any of the super fuses, so I have no comments on whether they make a difference or not. It seems like in this crazy hobby of ours, everything does make a difference even if we can't understand why.

 

[FrantzM]

I am not commenting ... I am not commenting ... I am NOT

 

[microstrip]

I am not commenting ... I am not commenting ... I am NOT

You will not resist ... You will not resist ... You will NOT

 

[Steve Williams]

I have always been at a loss to understand how users of these uber fuses can hear a difference when the direction is switched when as you say a fuse has no directionality.

Once my room is done, I am going to buy some of these for no other reason than to conduct that experiment

 

[GaryProtein]

I have always been at a loss to understand how users of these uber fuses can hear a difference when the direction is switched when as you say a fuse has no directionality.

Once my room is done, I am going to buy some of these for no other reason than to conduct that experiment

PLEASE as I have written in other recent posts here, have someone switch the fuses for you so you don't know what you are listening to. You know the gold standard for testing in science is the blind test. Let this be a true and valid test without any bias. Just remember you get 50% right just by guessing, so you have to get it right a very high percentage of the time.

 

[MylesBAstor]

PLEASE as I have written in other recent posts here, have someone switch the fuses for you so you don't know what you are listening to. You know the gold standard for testing in science is the blind test. Let this be a true and valid test without any bias. Just remember you get 50% right just by guessing, so you have to get it right a very high percentage of the time.

Gary will you stop posting that blind testing is the gold standard. Anyone in research knows a one size fits all approach is invalid. And so it is with blind testing which ignores every biological and statistical test known to mankind. Oh and we can start with an internal control.

 

[FrantzM]

Gary will you stop posting that blind testing is the gold standard. Anyone in research knows a one size fits all approach is invalid. And so it is with blind testing which ignores every biological and statistical test known to mankind.

Thus sighted test remains superior?!?

 

[ack]

I have always been at a loss to understand how users of these uber fuses can hear a difference when the direction is switched when as you say a fuse has no directionality.

Once my room is done, I am going to buy some of these for no other reason than to conduct that experiment

It's quite simple - no one claimed they were able to tell the difference by having someone else do the switcheroo while not present in the room; they simply do it themselves and somehow are convinced there is a difference. Placebo effect.

 

[MylesBAstor]

Thus sighted test remains superior?!?

Let's stay on the topic of why any of these tests are flawed. None of them are very good and statistically the odds are stacked in terms of a negative results. There's zero way of obtaining of enough samples to provide a statistically significant result. On top of that, as I've said many times before, research has shown that interaural hearing differences swamp out any statistical significance.

And as usual, negative opinions are coming as usual from those who have never tried the accessory, piece of equipment, etc. being discussed. How can one have an meaningful opinion without hearing the fuses???? This is getting rather long in the tooth.

 

[DonH50]

+++++++++++++++++Don, email me about your test idea when you get a chance.++++++++++++++++

A VNA (vector network analyzer) will provide the impedance (magnitude and phase) of whatever is connected to it. Most have two ports, some more. They are used to provide the transfer function of a network. In this case, the network is the fuse, so if you look at all the parameters (S11, S12, S21, S22, if you use scattering parameters) you will see if there is any difference looking into one end or the other. I would expect none (within the noise floor of the instrument).

What will make this hard is that the fuse is basically a piece of wire and so the impedance across it is very low, making it very difficult to resolve any differences. Since people can apparently hear things at -120 dB, beyond the dynamic range of most VNAs, I do not expect anyone to conduct this experiment. In my case, the VNA we have at work is very high bandwidth (40 - 50 GHz) and so probably does not even go as low as the audio band. Place I used to work at, had a LF VNA, but I am not at all sure what its dynamic range was. I have seen them with 120 db or better but that is an expensive option for some.

My experience says that such a test will affirm the side it supports and the other side will claim it is not accurate enough, something is left out, the effect is unmeasurable due to limited resolution, the ears are more sensitive than the test, or whatever.

Bernd's explanation makes no sense to me. When this came up originally, some time ago, I was of the opinion (backed by a look at the website at the time) that the "arrow" was just part of the logo.

 

[1rsw]

Ack....thanks for posting your experience, the rest of this testing/how does it/how could it...that is meaningless to me, although I do understand some folks value it. Curious, as you know we share the same DAC. I was not aware of any fuse. Where is it and what size, I'd also like to replace it. I'd also say that the fuses have improved over the last week. If I had to quantify I'd say around 25% better. I'm very pleased.

 

[ack]

Ack....thanks for posting your experience, the rest of this testing/how does it/how could it...that is meaningless to me, although I do understand some folks value it. Curious, as you know we share the same DAC. I was not aware of any fuse. Where is it and what size, I'd also like to replace it. I'd also say that the fuses have improved over the last week. If I had to quantify I'd say around 25% better. I'm very pleased.

You have to open the top plate, 0.5A/120V small sloblo. I didn't get the impression anyone questioned the findings; they, like me, are choking on the "directionality" claims. And there is no arrow; the "arrow" that one sees is part of the logo: a capacitor in parallel with a diode; if the fuse contained such a "network" it would have shown up with my simple DC resistance test (one direction would exhibit no flow); if it contained just a simple diode it would have shown up with the diode test... hopefully we can put this directionality thing to rest.

 

[Speedskater]

Good point...is sighted test then the gold standard.....

It is for equipment reviewers.