The Genesis Dragon

[microstrip]

Trust me, Gary...its NEVER a trouble where great sound and great music are concerned. And I must say, your Genesis 1's are something truly special. For me, they lie in that rarified realm of magic. And that's a very cool place to be...

Loyd,

Will I get an invitation to listen to your 1.2? I promise I will carry one bottle of my best Porto vintage!

 

[garylkoh]

We will have a party!

 

[worawoot]

Hi GaryProtein and Worawoot,

I have been thinking long term about my next speaker choice, and the Rockport Arrakis and Genesis 1.2 top the list at the moment having heard the big Arrakis in HK and also heard the earlier predecessor 1.1 (completely custom modified by a former colleage of Arnie Nudell).

Our room is 17.5x34x8...I understand that the ceiling height helps in terms of cubic volume...but the ceiling itself is less of an issue with this kind of speaker.

Gary - any thoughts?

Worawoot - I would REALLY appreciate any thoughts about how you feel these 2 fantastic speakers compare. I have my own thoughts, but have not spent enough time with them to really have firm convictions. Any comments are appreciated. If I may ask, what are your electronics and will that form part of how you make the final choice?

Hi..everyone…I have a plan to build my new listening room next year…and the speakers is the first thing to guide the whole system
room dimension that max at 20.5*34*12 feet…I’m looking for the absolute sound for me and lifelong companion….
I just heard XLF last week..and It lack off sound body for my taste…but Rockport Altair in good sound treatments room..make me impress.
And my searching still back to the most admired speakers when I was teenage in 1977….Infinity IRS or Genesis 1.2 in present day.
It must have something special for sure in design because…It still have a good reputation among audiophile around the world.
That why I must audition Genesis 1.2 before make decision.
The system that I want to match Genesis is Burmester or Viola audio…..

 

[LL21]

We will have a party!

View attachment 12307

What a great bottle! What an event better shot!!! Love it...a keeper, Gary. BTW, I have had 3 of those bottles here at home...all long gone. Fantastic stuff. And a particularly good year...one of those 'special years' as I recall.

 

[LL21]

Loyd,

Will I get an invitation to listen to your 1.2? I promise I will carry one bottle of my best Porto vintage!

Consider this an invitation...but you may need to hold onto it for some time to come!!! Neverthess, it would be a lot of fun to have you over, along with Gary and that photo with his bottle, and crack it open while listening to his might 1.2s at home...dare to dream [BIG].

 

[LL21]

Hi..everyone…I have a plan to build my new listening room next year…and the speakers is the first thing to guide the whole system
room dimension that max at 20.5*34*12 feet…I’m looking for the absolute sound for me and lifelong companion….
I just heard XLF last week..and It lack off sound body for my taste…but Rockport Altair in good sound treatments room..make me impress.
And my searching still back to the most admired speakers when I was teenage in 1977….Infinity IRS or Genesis 1.2 in present day.
It must have something special for sure in design because…It still have a good reputation among audiophile around the world.
That why I must audition Genesis 1.2 before make decision.
The system that I want to match Genesis is Burmester or Viola audio…..

Sounds stunning, and you have some great electronics. I am curious as to what you may have heard the XLFs with. The reason I ask is that while I absolutely love the Arrakis and the Genesis 1s...I have found that with most of the truly great speakers, once you get the electronics right, you can make your own magic. And that includes the XLFs for me. I knew very roughly where i was headed when i set out 8 years ago to build the current system, so i have had in mind all the various components/sound characteristics that they possess blending to a 'voice' that i particularly like...a voice which includes the X1/Grand Slamms.
I suppose i managed to build around all the various components and come out with a blend that really really suits my personal taste and priorities in music and sound.

Given how incredibly flexible the XLF is, i really have to say, despite being enthralled by Arrakis and Genesis...who are really tied for first place in my mind...i have to admit having heard and re-heard the XLF, its not that far behind those two in my mind, even though i acknowledge the system would have to be a bit different.

 

[microstrip]

We will have a party!

Gary and Loyd,
If I ever get a pair of 1.2 we will have a party and I will surely open this 1898 vintage Porto while playing the King James Version LP !

 

[LL21]

Gary and Loyd,
If I ever get a pair of 1.2 we will have a party and I will surely open this 1898 vintage Porto while playing the King James Version LP !

I'm there...with a hand-cut crystal glass and a handful of great CDs. Get ready to pour, Micro...

 

[LL21]

BTW, Micro - where did you GET that bottle? That's amazing!

 

[worawoot]

Sounds stunning, and you have some great electronics. I am curious as to what you may have heard the XLFs with. The reason I ask is that while I absolutely love the Arrakis and the Genesis 1s...I have found that with most of the truly great speakers, once you get the electronics right, you can make your own magic. And that includes the XLFs for me. I knew very roughly where i was headed when i set out 8 years ago to build the current system, so i have had in mind all the various components/sound characteristics that they possess blending to a 'voice' that i particularly like...a voice which includes the X1/Grand Slamms.
I suppose i managed to build around all the various components and come out with a blend that really really suits my personal taste and priorities in music and sound.

Given how incredibly flexible the XLF is, i really have to say, despite being enthralled by Arrakis and Genesis...who are really tied for first place in my mind...i have to admit having heard and re-heard the XLF, its not that far behind those two in my mind, even though i acknowledge the system would have to be a bit different.


The systems that match with XLF was DCS Vivaldi + pre VTL 7.5 + Siegfried + Nordost Valhala..
Room dimension around 4.5*7.5*2.8 meters…But not solid constructed…..So may be the room problem.
XLF in that day...mid low is major problem for me…when compare with Altair…XLF turn Bosendorfer to Yamaha piano
And image and soundstage didn’t vary from disc to disc like Altair did.
but IMHO the dealers didn’t have a good room enough for demo...

 

[garylkoh]

Hi..everyone…I have a plan to build my new listening room next year…and the speakers is the first thing to guide the whole system
room dimension that max at 20.5*34*12 feet…I’m looking for the absolute sound for me and lifelong companion….
I just heard XLF last week..and It lack off sound body for my taste…but Rockport Altair in good sound treatments room..make me impress.
And my searching still back to the most admired speakers when I was teenage in 1977….Infinity IRS or Genesis 1.2 in present day.
It must have something special for sure in design because…It still have a good reputation among audiophile around the world.
That why I must audition Genesis 1.2 before make decision.
The system that I want to match Genesis is Burmester or Viola audio…..

The advantage of the Genesis 1.2 is that you have all the control you need to make it sound the way you want. Every room will sound different - even if the room has identical dimensions - if the room is made out of different materials. The solid brick/concrete walls we have in Asia are very different from the wall construction in the US. Hence, since I took control of Genesis, I provided a bit more variability in the controls. With the G1.2, you can control midrange, tweeter and bass.

Even the seat you are sitting in makes a difference - leather reflects higher frequency than fabric. So, sitting in a leather chair, you want to reduce the tweeter by one to two notches.

 

[garylkoh]

Gary and Loyd,
If I ever get a pair of 1.2 we will have a party and I will surely open this 1898 vintage Porto while playing the King James Version LP !

That's amazing! I look forward to when you get a pair of G1.2.

Oldest port I've had is 1927. I'm out of 1948, but still have quite a few bottles of 1977 left. They are just coming around too.....

 

[garylkoh]

The systems that match with XLF was DCS Vivaldi + pre VTL 7.5 + Siegfried + Nordost Valhala..
Room dimension around 4.5*7.5*2.8 meters…But not solid constructed…..So may be the room problem.
XLF in that day...mid low is major problem for me…when compare with Altair…XLF turn Bosendorfer to Yamaha piano
And image and soundstage didn’t vary from disc to disc like Altair did.
but IMHO the dealers didn’t have a good room enough for demo...

If the XLF turned a Bosendorfer into a Yamaha, it could be that the XLF was not optimized for you. They have a much smaller sweet-spot than the Altair. Especially if you say that imaging and soundstage didn't vary from disc to disc, that is what I would suspect.

 

[LL21]

If the XLF turned a Bosendorfer into a Yamaha, it could be that the XLF was not optimized for you. They have a much smaller sweet-spot than the Altair. Especially if you say that imaging and soundstage didn't vary from disc to disc, that is what I would suspect.

I am inclined to agree. I have posted my comments about how much I like the Genesis 1.2 including a comparison to the XLF (I felt the Genesis 1.2 was simply at a higher level). That said, I can COMPLETELY see the XLF being able to bring a Bosendorder properly into a room with vastly different soundstages...from 1'-3' feet wide to 25 feet wide. The reason I still hold onto the XLF as a close 3rd to the Arrakis and Genesis 1.2 is because it fits in tight spaces which makes it more practical living in big cities with mainly apartments(London, Hong Kong, NYC, etc). And I could easily see myself happy as can be using it with well integrated subs to feel like 'I have it all' for the most part.

As it is, I still have yet to come across a system where if someone offered a simple trade for my system (which includes X1/Grand Slamms), I would simply say yes. And that is NOT a boast about my system...it is ACTUALLY a statement about the fact that my system has been painstakingly tuned over 8 years by me to suit my tastes...such that i still prefer my system over many of the SOTA systems i have been fortunate to hear in London, NYC, Boston, Hong Kong, Istanbul, Madrid, Slovenia, etc...this is partly thus a testament to how flexible the X1/Grand Slamms are. and the XLFs are a far better, more resolved, more solid, more refined and far far more coherent speaker with greater ease than my X1s.

 

[worawoot]

I still believe that XLF is in the front row among top class speakers of the world.
But in this price range..expectation from customers is hughes.
Dealers should be carefully demo in the room that can release most of speakers' potential.
Matching and setup is critical too.A good dealers must..must..must known that.

 

[LL21]

I still believe that XLF is in the front row among top class speakers of the world.
But in this price range..expectation from customers is hughes.
Dealers should be carefully demo in the room that can release most of speakers' potential.
Matching and setup is critical too.A good dealers must..must..must known that.

Worawoot, if you would consider XLFs plus Thors (or plus powered Subs like Magico QSubs), Absolute Sounds UK offer a service where you fly them out to set it up. And I can confirm having spoken with Wilson, Wilson have an enormous respect for the person who runs operations there who might possibly be able to come out to setup your XLFs. In fact, Transparent Audio say the same about him. Happy to put you in touch if you decide at some point you wish to explore. This is probably the single greatest reason for me that I would ever consider XLFs...having Abs Sounds set it up.

 

[LL21]

That said, if I had a permanent, large room (as you seem to)...I would still focus on Genesis 1.2, Arrakis. Good luck and pls keep us posted!

 

[FrantzM]

Hi

I am pleased that the Genesis line ofr speakers is (again) in the discussion for best speakers around. We audiophiles are a fllicker group and there is indeed a component-of-the-moment tendency among us.
This said I doubt there are many speakers out there (commercially available) that would match the Genesis in term of bass power. And I am being diplomatic as there seems that there are none. As for the rest of the spectrum i liked the sound of the Gen 1.1 of yore. I need to listen to the latest to reassess. I have no doubt the sound has improved which is scary

 

[LL21]

...[The XLFs] have a much smaller sweet-spot than the Altair...

Why is that, Gary? Curious.

 

[garylkoh]

Hi

I am pleased that the Genesis line ofr speakers is (again) in the discussion for best speakers around. We audiophiles are a fllicker group and there is indeed a component-of-the-moment tendency among us.
This said I doubt there are many speakers out there (commercially available) that would match the Genesis in term of bass power. And I am being diplomatic as there seems that there are none. As for the rest of the spectrum i liked the sound of the Gen 1.1 of yore. I need to listen to the latest to reassess. I have no doubt the sound has improved which is scary

+1 Thanks Frantz.

With the G1.2, we have gone a step further with better materials and availability of technology. However, I did my best to keep to the legacy sound of Arnie Nudell's IRS V and G1.1. Where there weren't many speakers available to match the bass power of the G1.1, with double the bass capability (not for loudness mind you, but for better quality) in the G1.2 I don't think that there are any that would match the bass power. And the biggest improvement between the G1.1 and the G1.2 IMHO is not the power, but the improved coherence between the bass and the midrange.