Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

Taiko Audio

Industry Expert
Feb 10, 2017
4,234
13,027
1,925
The Netherlands
taikoaudio.com
Hello everybody,

I've just returned from a long drive into Germany to securely get the chassis parts for the next batches of Extreme servers to our workshop in Hengelo. Unfortunately European shipping services have been less reliable then usual lately and we did not want to take any chances for additional delays with so many people eagerly awaiting the arrival of their servers.

Regarding the development of new software.

1) So far the Extreme has been pretty much a Roon only solution. With a growing customer base there has been an increasing desire amongst our customers to be able to use services beyond those provided by Roon. Alternative music sources to Tidal/Qobuz and competing metadata providers and music exploration services. A few examples: Deezer hi-fi, Amazon, Classical, Highresaudio, Last.fm, Spotify, Youtube video, iTunes, Airplay, Chromecast or alternative library browsing services like the above mentioned folder based browsing are often requested but cannot be currently offered in an ecosystem strictly based on Roon.

2) As @nenon and others have pointed out on the previous pages a music server is a complex system with a lot of variables in play. Hardware, software and ancillaries all affect sound quality and must be carefully balanced to achieve a desired result. As an ever evolving project it is simply the next step up the evolutionary ladder to achieve more control and consistency on the software side of things and start pushing existing performance boundaries. This extends beyond just the music player functionality and performance. We are also working towards extracting more performance from the existing hardware by gaining more control over how it is utilised. We have been working on our own DAC drivers for example and proprietary software to reduce or remove processing induced noise in stored or streamed files.

3) As the number of deployed Extreme servers is growing we are working on a service on demand and update system which can be conveniently launched from your Taiko app to improve our customer service efficiency.

So this is not just about replacing Roon but about providing an alternative environment and increased functionality. As pictures tend to be more effective then words I will include an early design stage screenshot of a page of the Taiko app.

app.jpg


Although I feel humbled by all the accolades on the previous pages I would like to point out that this is a team effort rather then just my own.

Edward (EuroDriver) introduced Wilson D'Cruz as our new North America support operative, but Wilson is also responsible for the software development part of the project. We have been lucky to have met Wilson as a somewhat unique software developer with an open mind and appreciation of the delicate relationship between lines of code and sound quality. Furthermore Edward and Christoph have been putting in copious amounts of time and effort. I should also mention and thank forum member @audioquattr for having tirelessly tried and verified, which by now has probably exceeded the 100 mark, of different builds, configurations and settings.

We are now close to start beta testing. Although it may seem that we already did by @Steve Williams posting a few initial impressions, this actually involves a pre beta stage version. We used Steve as a voluntary guinea pig for an independent sonic check to mitigate confirmation bias.
 

Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Based on what? Roon has a lot of advanced features and supports just about all common file types and resolutions. While it may not be the best sounding software it is far from a background music player. Let’s try not to go overboard with these Roon rips.
Compared to TAS IMHO Roon is everything wil stated

Give Emile a chance to forever improve upon his server and that's where I plan on hanging my hat. Emile is all about the best SQ and that is where my head is at. In the few days I have used it , it is impeccable sound. There are bugs to iron out which he is doing on a daily basis and AFAIK he is working daily to modify and improve the existing SQ and he is achieving that goal. Given the time to create a similar Roon experience the TAS will be a major force with which competitors will have to contend

My few days of use of the TAS has me craving more and better and it does change daily thanks to Emile and his team. To do such a task in 6-8 weeks is more than a simple challenge. Kudos Emile
 

cat6man

Well-Known Member
Feb 6, 2013
891
995
1,155
west of NYC, east of SF
Hello everybody,

I've just returned from a long drive into Germany to securely get the chassis parts for the next batches of Extreme servers to our workshop in Hengelo. Unfortunately European shipping services have been less reliable then usual lately and we did not want to take any chances for additional delays with so many people eagerly awaiting the arrival of their servers.

did you pick up any mini chassis on your trip? :)
 
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spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
14,606
5,415
1,278
E. England
Emile, will TAS be available on Extreme Mini when that's released?
 

dminches

Well-Known Member
Oct 22, 2011
3,409
2,794
1,410
Compared to TAS IMHO Roon is everything wil stated

Steve, since you have had your Extreme you have said it is close to making your vinyl setup obsolete (I am paraphrasing; correct me if I am sending the wrong message). I also believe you were running Roon on your Extreme. If both those are true I cannot believe Roon is a horribly sounding player whose best use is background music. That’s what Wil said.

TAS may be superior. I am not surprised, but until a week ago everyone said the Extreme + Roon was amazing (which I firmly believe as well).
 

dminches

Well-Known Member
Oct 22, 2011
3,409
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spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
14,606
5,415
1,278
E. England
Steve, since you have had your Extreme you have said it is close to making your vinyl setup obsolete (I am paraphrasing; correct me if I am sending the wrong message). I also believe you were running Roon on your Extreme. If both those are true I cannot believe Roon is a horribly sounding player whose best use is background music. That’s what Wil said.

TAS may be superior. I am not surprised, but until a week ago everyone said the Extreme + Roon was amazing (which I firmly believe as well).
I believe new cartridges often derail the idea digital can match vinyl...
 

Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Steve, since you have had your Extreme you have said it is close to making your vinyl setup obsolete (I am paraphrasing; correct me if I am sending the wrong message). I also believe you were running Roon on your Extreme. If both those are true I cannot believe Roon is a horribly sounding player whose best use is background music. That’s what Wil said.

TAS may be superior. I am not surprised, but until a week ago everyone said the Extreme + Roon was amazing (which I firmly believe as well).
yes, everything you said is correct however if you followed my posts it was my impression that after the last Roon upgrade I lost the sparkle to the music. Sound quality to me had suffered and I know music is good whenI'm locked in my room for hours playing Roon and totally engaged. Recently I wondered if it were only me but i am reading that many members from Hong Kong had the same impression. I lost the magic and my listening sessions became shorter no matter what I played on Roon

Emile was kind enough to make me the first guinea pig and I can say with out reservation that with the first few songs I listened to there was no doubt in my mind that this was not just something different but truly something better
Ambience, timbre and presence were back and I was totally engaged and remain so. yes it lacks the seductiveness of Roon but TBH I am betting this will evolve and what I am looking at now is easy to navigate. As I said before the Extreme is La Creme de la creme but the TAS is the icing on the cake.

I truly believe that with time the TAS will be all Extreme users go to server and watching the rapidity with which things are evolving I know that this is a work in progress and that patience is a virtue
 

cat6man

Well-Known Member
Feb 6, 2013
891
995
1,155
west of NYC, east of SF
Steve,
thanks for your feedback on the pre-beta.
i think what might be confusing folks (or at least me) is that i can't determine if you are saying that the sound is back to where it was back when it was magical sounding or if the sound now is even better than it ever was with roon.
 

Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Steve,
thanks for your feedback on the pre-beta.
i think what might be confusing folks (or at least me) is that i can't determine if you are saying that the sound is back to where it was back when it was magical sounding or if the sound now is even better than it ever was with roon.
I thought I was clear. Let me say again. What I am hearing now is better than Roon when I started in October and giant leaps better than what I was hearing 2 weeks ago
 

wil

Well-Known Member
Jul 22, 2015
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Steve, since you have had your Extreme you have said it is close to making your vinyl setup obsolete (I am paraphrasing; correct me if I am sending the wrong message). I also believe you were running Roon on your Extreme. If both those are true I cannot believe Roon is a horribly sounding player whose best use is background music. That’s what Wil said.
.

Will never said Roon sounds horrible.
Actually, what I was trying to communicate is that Roon's raison d' etre is not ultimate sound quality which is just fine for background music. Shoot, most of my listening, and I bet everyone here, is background to a some extent. But where we differ from most Roon users I suspect is that we also sit and do nothing but listen. Again, if Roon releases an update where sq goes down-- that's a wagon I don't want to be hitched to.
 

the sound of Tao

Well-Known Member
Jul 18, 2014
3,620
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Will never said Roon sounds horrible.
Actually, what I was trying to communicate is that Roon's raison d' etre is not ultimate sound quality which is just fine for background music. Shoot, most of my listening, and I bet everyone here, is background to a some extent. But where we differ from most Roon users I suspect is that we also sit and do nothing but listen. Again, if Roon releases an update where sq goes down-- that's a wagon I don't want to be hitched to.
Is that serious? That you believe roon users mostly use their systems just for background music?
 

Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Is that serious? That you believe roon users mostly use their systems just for background music?
I have never once used my system for background music. It’s for active listening not passive listening. If I want passive listening I ask Alexa to “play some music I like”

My system OTOH is my hobby, where I go to listen to what I hope to be the very best SQ
 

the sound of Tao

Well-Known Member
Jul 18, 2014
3,620
4,838
940
I have never once used my system for background music. It’s for active listening not passive listening. If I want passive listening I ask Alexa to “play some music I like”

My system OTOH is my hobby, where I go to listen to what I hope to be the very best SQ
Steve, I’m the same, I have to have a separate second system designed just so I can work at times from home with music on. I can’t put the horns on or I never get anything else done :rolleyes:
 
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petavgeris

Member
Apr 16, 2019
28
53
18
52
With absolute respect to your findings, when I read that Taiko server Extreme is basically a Roon only platform, the the following question came in my mind: how is it possible to purchase this giant with maximum sound quality in mind and at the same time listen to a software that is only good for surfing in albums and some background listening?

Almost three years ago (maybe even more) I purchased an Antipodes flagship streamer. The Logitech Media Server was playing good but when I was switching to Roon server, SQ climbed steps higher. I decided to purchase a lifetime license. Through the years, I experienced all the consecutive steps in climbing the ladder downwards. I still remember that version after version, SQ was lower and lower. Last year on the same machine, LMS was playing considerably better than Roon. I hope this tells something to you.

I have discontinued using Roon since more than a year ago. Last month I sold my lifetime license for the price I paid to get it and now I am using Euphony/Stylus and have never been happier.

I am absolutely sure that now all the Extreme users will finally listen to what they have paid in order to get the best server on planet. My congrats to the Taiko Audio team for their wise decision. Now has come the time for me to think of getting one Taiko server after the software is finished.
 

CKKeung

Well-Known Member
Jun 17, 2011
3,053
3,172
1,410
Hong Kong
We are now close to start beta testing. Although it may seem that we already did by @Steve Williams posting a few initial impressions, this actually involves a pre beta stage version. We used Steve as a voluntary guinea pig for an independent sonic check to mitigate confirmation bias.
Hi Steve,
You must be a very happy guinea pig!
:p
 
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kimurastanley

Well-Known Member
Mar 16, 2019
256
291
150
Singapore
Yesterday my Roon was automatically updated to the latest version (regretted for not turning off auto-update). :(

This latest version SQ is worse than the previous update. Flatter sound stage and highs becomes less controlled.

Waiting for the TAS to save the SQ.
 

wil

Well-Known Member
Jul 22, 2015
1,482
1,510
428
Is that serious? That you believe roon users mostly use their systems just for background music?

It may come down to how you think of "background" or "active" listening.

I think most people, including Roon users, aren't giving their full attention, or even close to full attention, to music listening most of the time. There are many levels of attention from deep focus to distant background.

I have my system in my work studio. It might be on 4 to 10 hrs a day. If I'm doing work with only my hands, I can still listen with maybe 75% average attention, but wavering in and out with short periods of 100% attention. If I have to be doing more verbal or analytical work, my attention to the music has to go much lower (what most would consider "background"). If I really have to concentrate on something verbal, I'll have to turn the music off or to very low volume.

For active listening, with total immersion, I can't be doing anything else. It's like meditation. Ideally, I'd like to spend 1-2 hours a day attempting to listen with total immersion, if I can find the time.

There's a great piece written by Herb Reichert on the art and effort of deep listening. It's a practice, like meditation, and a skill to be developed over time.
Herb says the best he's done is 2 minutes of perfect concentrated music listening.

https://www.audiostream.com/content/herb-reichert-learning-listen
 

adyc

VIP/Donor
Jan 5, 2013
873
399
973
Hello everybody,

I've just returned from a long drive into Germany to securely get the chassis parts for the next batches of Extreme servers to our workshop in Hengelo. Unfortunately European shipping services have been less reliable then usual lately and we did not want to take any chances for additional delays with so many people eagerly awaiting the arrival of their servers.

Regarding the development of new software.

1) So far the Extreme has been pretty much a Roon only solution. With a growing customer base there has been an increasing desire amongst our customers to be able to use services beyond those provided by Roon. Alternative music sources to Tidal/Qobuz and competing metadata providers and music exploration services. A few examples: Deezer hi-fi, Amazon, Classical, Highresaudio, Last.fm, Spotify, Youtube video, iTunes, Airplay, Chromecast or alternative library browsing services like the above mentioned folder based browsing are often requested but cannot be currently offered in an ecosystem strictly based on Roon.

2) As @nenon and others have pointed out on the previous pages a music server is a complex system with a lot of variables in play. Hardware, software and ancillaries all affect sound quality and must be carefully balanced to achieve a desired result. As an ever evolving project it is simply the next step up the evolutionary ladder to achieve more control and consistency on the software side of things and start pushing existing performance boundaries. This extends beyond just the music player functionality and performance. We are also working towards extracting more performance from the existing hardware by gaining more control over how it is utilised. We have been working on our own DAC drivers for example and proprietary software to reduce or remove processing induced noise in stored or streamed files.

3) As the number of deployed Extreme servers is growing we are working on a service on demand and update system which can be conveniently launched from your Taiko app to improve our customer service efficiency.

So this is not just about replacing Roon but about providing an alternative environment and increased functionality. As pictures tend to be more effective then words I will include an early design stage screenshot of a page of the Taiko app.

View attachment 66354


Although I feel humbled by all the accolades on the previous pages I would like to point out that this is a team effort rather then just my own.

Edward (EuroDriver) introduced Wilson D'Cruz as our new North America support operative, but Wilson is also responsible for the software development part of the project. We have been lucky to have met Wilson as a somewhat unique software developer with an open mind and appreciation of the delicate relationship between lines of code and sound quality. Furthermore Edward and Christoph have been putting in copious amounts of time and effort. I should also mention and thank forum member @audioquattr for having tirelessly tried and verified, which by now has probably exceeded the 100 mark, of different builds, configurations and settings.

We are now close to start beta testing. Although it may seem that we already did by @Steve Williams posting a few initial impressions, this actually involves a pre beta stage version. We used Steve as a voluntary guinea pig for an independent sonic check to mitigate confirmation bias.
Is there any chance to add Jriver?
 

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