Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

[EuroDriver]

So I have to report that Emile is driving with a co-worker from Hengelo to Germany to pick up a batch of Extreme cases from the top anodizing company in Germany (IMO) Since Covid, logistics in Europe have become unreliable, with shipments being lost without trace. So to guarantee no additional delays for customers waiting for their Extremes, What Ever It Takes to get the job done.

Logistics, software, hardware, its the same Mantra

I am answering the easy questions, Emile when he has a chance in about 24 hours time, will answer the rest and also give more back ground on the Software Project

 

[EuroDriver]

Does TAS use Qobuz Application Programming Interface (API), afaik Roon does not.
Thanks

Matt

The Qobuz API is in action when searching and browsing from TAS

Similarly for TIDAL the Tidal API is in action when searching on TAS

 

[Steve williams]

Qobuz works well. Search is perhaps a bit clunky, but once I was used to it, I could find everything quickly. I am comparably happy with Qobuz search on the Taiko Audio Server, as I am on Roon

Me too

 

[nenon]

I like where this is going.
Just when I posted that I found Roon to be the biggest bottleneck, and you guys got a new player. Congratulations! I told you you were in good hands!

So, if the network streamed music is going to memory (RAM?) before being rendered and sent to the dac, does it mean that all the network related noise is bypassed? Or, will you always have some negative influence from the network as long as you are connected to it?

I don't know what the new player is doing but you can be sure Emile knows what he is doing. The digital source is a very complex interaction between hardware and software. There is nothing better than having the software and hardware designed for each other and change controlled from the same company. And with dual CPUs, 20 cores / 40 threads, and 48GB of RAM, the sky is the limit. An average decent office computer has 4 GB of RAM and 4 cores.
One quick example - the network tweaks when playing local files made a lot less difference with Euphony/Stylus than they did with Windows/Roon. I bet the new Taiko Audio Server would do some of the things that Euphony/Stylus does and will make the Extreme more immune to network tweaks (for local stored music). Streaming is different, but I won't go there now.

That new player would also open up some opportunities for cost savings on the Mini Extreme. For example, when loading the tracks to RAM first, a network based NAS storage solution would sound pretty good, and there would be no need for the expensive NVME local storage the Extreme uses. That would mean that you don't need full-height PCIe cards support, and the chassis can be smaller. Those are two very significant cost savings with relatively little sound quality impact. From my experience the local storage may still sound a little better, even when playing from RAM, but the difference is not worth the cost, especially when you're trying to get a stripped down version of the Extreme at a lower cost. So it's a win-win situation. The Extreme owners get consistent (and better) sound quality that Roon cannot F%^&$ up. The people who cannot afford the Extreme would be able to get the mini version cheaper.

Back to Will's question. It would probably never be completely immune to the impact of the network, just like no USB DAC is completely immune to the source... no matter what DAC manufacturers say ... we know better from experience! But from my DIY experience with different players on similar hardware, I can guarantee you that you would be thrilled with the sound quality of a well-designed player on your Extreme instead of Roon. I am excited for all of you. And hopefully one day I can try this TAS player too.

As for some of the debates on Roon functionality vs. TAS sound quality - it seems like you can flip a switch and switch between the two. That's what I did with Euphony - switching between Stylus and Roon. But to be honest over time I ended up using the better sounding Stylus player 99% of the time.

 

[Steve williams]

Guys the TAS is the real deal. I haven't accessed Roon in 2 days and my toes are tapping and the music is so much better than Roon. I haven't been missing Roon at all

 

[matthias]

Guys the TAS is the real deal. I haven't accessed Roon in 2 days and my toes are tapping and the music is so much better than Roon. I haven't been missing Roon at all

TAS = The Absolute Sound

 

[Steve williams]

Plus the fact that I am using a beta version which is different today than it was last night. It is wonderful hearing this server evolve

As a result of the beta version, my roonaccess is disabled. Once the remote app becomes available for download it will be easy to click between the two servers. To do it now it has to be done manually and is above my pay grade

 

[Steve williams]

TAS = The Absolute Sound

Taiko Audio Server

 

[nenon]

So, when you play remote streamed files from RAM, you have improved sound quality because it is not streaming real time over the network? However, you are still connected to the network, so I assume it is still passing on some network-born noise?

Yes, that is correct. But the network-born noise that is still passing on is just one of many factors. There are many different things that happen when you stream in realtime. For example:
- The network card is doing some activity. That means it's drawing power. That also means it is generating electrical noise that goes straight to your motherboard and impacts your other component - CPU, RAM, USB, etc.
- The CPU needs to process network traffic. That means the CPU is stopping other work to process the network traffic.
If you look deeper under the hood you would discover many other things that potentially influence the sound quality. There is a lot to be gained by replacing the realtime streaming with caching to RAM and playing from RAM.

 

[matthias]

The Qobuz API is in action when searching and browsing from TAS

The Qobuz API is used by Audirvana as well.
I would be more than happy to get the same info with TAS too.
IMO, no need for Roon at all.

Matt

 

[kennyb123]

Sure, it's just that there has been zero input from owners of Innuos Zenith and Statement, LDMS, Lumin, Pink Faun, Antipodes, Evo, Grimm, that they're unhappy w reported Roon shortcomings as a result of changes. Only Extreme owners.

Not true. Some customers complained to Innuos back in 2018 about Roon sounding worse than the Innuos internal player. That lead to "Experimental mode" which provided "settings to allow using our internal player with Roon, enabling RAM playback". They unfortunately let it languish too long in an unstable condition, but it just recently got some love. I would never want to go back to Roon/RAAT, but Roon/Experimental mode is awesome.

Innuos has also been working on an alternative to Roon along the same lines of what Taiko has just released.

But having said all that, I am still eager to hear more about Extreme Mini. I just hope I can afford it.

 

[matthias]

But having said all that, I am still eager to hear more about Extreme Mini.

I can imagine it will sound with TAS only as good as Extreme with Roon only.

Matt

 

[Basillus7]

The TAS will only be available to Extreme owners? Otherwise I would like to use and buy it when it is fully tested ;0)

 

[CKKeung]

The TAS will only be available to Extreme owners? Otherwise I would like to use and buy it when it is fully tested ;0)
View attachment 66343

A good question!

Can the TAS be applied to other brands and replace Roon?

Emile & Edward : any plan to make TAS a separate product of Taiko Audio?

 

[Steve williams]

Only available to Taiko audio owners

 

[Steve williams]

A good question!

Can the TAS be applied to other brands and replace Roon?

Emile & Edward : any plan to make TAS a separate product of Taiko Audio?

I asked Emile the same question a few weeks ago He seemed quite sure it was for Taiko owners only

 

[CKKeung]

I asked Emile the same question a few weeks ago He seemed quite sure it was for Taiko owners only

So the server/streamer owners of other brands should consider seriously joining the Taiko Audio camp!

 

[EuroDriver]

The Look and Feel of Roon is rising to new levels

https://blog.roonlabs.com/roon-1-7-build-571/

It is seductive

 

[CKKeung]

Sorry, I have zero interest in look & feel.

What I only want is the Best Sound!

 

[EuroDriver]

Sorry, I have zero interest in look & feel.

What I only want is the Best Sound!

For TAS, it’s Sound Quality, Sound Quality, and Sound Quality ;-)