System for Under US$10,000 MSRP

[morricab]

Has anyone compared Living Voice Auditorium R25A to Fyne 501SP?

No, but I have heard them separately and lean towards the LV speakers. The Fynes are also good though...

 

[morricab]

I had Living voice 2way speaker . Those speakers are very good but the Living Voice Auditorium R25A loudspeakers are ok with low feedback push pull tube amplifiers not SS Class AB or D amplifiers.

True but that is my opinion for all speakers! A friend of mine just got rid of his Nagra 845 monos (Class A PP triode) because he couldn't solve the hum issues he had with them (they didn't hum at my place but nothing he tried worked at his place). So, he got an Accuphase A70, which by most accounts is a near SOTA Class A PP SS amp. Well...he misses the Nagras...

 

[morricab]

Wait, what about the Schitt Ragnarok 2 integrated amplifier with phono stage and DAC ($1,900)?

How does the sound of Schitt compare to the sound of the Class D Bel Canto C6i?

With Living Voice, I agree with Amir that they cry out for a tube amp. Willsenton R8 is a good and affordable choice. A friend has one and I was surprised by how good it sounded and for about 1500 off Amazon.

 

[Amir]

True but that is my opinion for all speakers! A friend of mine just got rid of his Nagra 845 monos (Class A PP triode) because he couldn't solve the hum issues he had with them (they didn't hum at my place but nothing he tried worked at his place). So, he got an Accuphase A70, which by most accounts is a near SOTA Class A PP SS amp. Well...he misses the Nagras...

I think the matching of amplifier and speaker is very very important , the problem is in this market we have few perfect matching. Speaker manufactures do not care about amplifier matching and also amplifier manufactures do not care about speaker matching. I remember the Living Voice speaker had near perfect sound (in it's price range) with Microseiki 5000 turntable / EAR phono/Pre/Power 30w push pull tube but when I connected many solidstate amplifiers to Living voice the sound was not good.

I agree you the hum problem does not relate to Nagra , the problem comes from wrong setup and AC / Ground problems.

in this market just Audiopax Designer Delima put his effort for amplifier speaker matching by introducing Timbrelock option.
Every Audiopax model 88 had two setting one for tuning bass and another for tunning midrange.
Jim Smith was distributor of Audiopax and He can give us more information.

 

[morricab]

I think the matching of amplifier and speaker is very very important , the problem is in this market we have few perfect matching. Speaker manufactures do not care about amplifier matching and also amplifier manufactures do not care about speaker matching. I remember the Living Voice speaker had near perfect sound (in it's price range) with Microseiki 5000 turntable / EAR phono/Pre/Power 30w push pull tube but when I connected many solidstate amplifiers to Living voice the sound was not good.

I agree you the hum problem does not relate to Nagra , the problem comes from wrong setup and AC / Ground problems.

in this market just Audiopax Designer Delima put his effort for amplifier speaker matching by introducing Timbrelock option.
Every Audiopax model 88 had two setting one for tuning bass and another for tunning midrange.
Jim Smith was distributor of Audiopax and He can give us more information.

Yes, but all the things you mention don't fit the 10K or even 12K budget.

 

[Amir]

Yes sure but I did not mention it for under 10k. I just refer to importance of matching between speaker and amplifier

 

[Amir]

I never liked the sound of most SS/Hybrids amplification at low prices and also I never liked most digital playbacks at low prices.
This is not 100% rule and you may find exceptions but overally I think both digital and SS amplifications could be ok at higher prices.

Small room + Vintage Analog turntables + Tube amplification + High efficiency 2way Paper dynamic drivers are my favorite for under $10k

 

[Another Johnson]

For a friend like this, an important issue will be “set it and forget it” level reliability. He wants new gear. He wants a turnkey system.

He will NOT become an audiophile. His engagement with music is in the form of hand-ear-brain coordination at the instrument level.

If he were to peruse this thread, parts of it would be humorous because they are the data that prove the audiophile stereotype. Parts of it might be chilling because, if the “collective WBF we” are to be believed, it is very nigh impossible to get good sound in your home until the spend is well into five figures.

I think he’s a strong candidate for B&O, Devialet, Apple, or even one of the very simple McIntosh “lifestyle” systems.

Matching up new separates at this budget level is really hard. If you strolled into BestBuy, someone from their “geek squad” who could not afford to spend $10k would help you spend yours. You would leave with a Magnolia blessed complete home theater, including TV and “audiophile level AQ Evergreen cables.”

Remember … Ron’s friend does not even want to go to do a speaker comparison at more than one dealer.

If he were my friend, I’d advise him to put the money into a new phono cartridge, upgraded interconnects (maybe at or below the AQ MacKenzie level) , an RCM, and maybe a nice integrated amp with phono and a DAC from Marantz, Denon, or other reliable source.

At some point down the road he might be ready for new speakers, or a new TT.

It’s hard for audiophiles to “get this,” but this is not about what we would like. It’s about what he would like. Ron’s profile of him tells me that he needs a simple, maintenance and tweak free system.

 

[facten]

It’s hard for audiophiles to “get this,” but this is not about what we would like. It’s about what he would like.

Well said. I have a friend who wanted to spend no more than half of what Ron's friend is willing to. He asked me for thoughts on some options he was looking at which I did, and avoided any attempt to steer him into spending more than he was comfortable with. In the end he is satisfied with what he purchased and will occasionally text me telling me what he is listening to and enjoying. His musical enjoyment is all that matters.

 

[Stefan]

On LV R25A, I agree 100% that they are exceptional with valve amps such as these 2 amps in the pic, with the Shindo Montile my preference, by a margin. However, I will not hesitate to pair them with an SS amp like the Sugden or the Moonriver if I have to recommend a system for a "friend" who appreciates a musical presentation but is sceptical about valves. This is based on 1st hand experience.

And if the Sugden is good enough for Kevin to use it at Spiritland with his horns, I think it earns its place on a list of possible SS amps to be paired with the Auditorium range. By the way, if in London, do make an effort to visit Spirit Land at Coal Drops Land.

Maybe it would be interesting to look at the Moonriver review in Stereophile as well for a reference opinion. https://www.stereophile.com/content/moonriver-404-reference-integrated-amplifier

 

[Ron Resnick]

Yes, there's a good chance he'll spend $12K and end up with something different but not better.

Aren't you a Debbie downer?

Well, it's my job on this project to make sure that doesn't happen.

 

[AudioHR]

For a friend like this, an important issue will be “set it and forget it” level reliability. He wants new gear. He wants a turnkey system.

He will NOT become an audiophile. His engagement with music is in the form of hand-ear-brain coordination at the instrument level.

If he were to peruse this thread, parts of it would be humorous because they are the data that prove the audiophile stereotype. Parts of it might be chilling because, if the “collective WBF we” are to be believed, it is very nigh impossible to get good sound in your home until the spend is well into five figures.

I think he’s a strong candidate for B&O, Devialet, Apple, or even one of the very simple McIntosh “lifestyle” systems.

Matching up new separates at this budget level is really hard. If you strolled into BestBuy, someone from their “geek squad” who could not afford to spend $10k would help you spend yours. You would leave with a Magnolia blessed complete home theater, including TV and “audiophile level AQ Evergreen cables.”

Remember … Ron’s friend does not even want to go to do a speaker comparison at more than one dealer.

If he were my friend, I’d advise him to put the money into a new phono cartridge, upgraded interconnects (maybe at or below the AQ MacKenzie level) , an RCM, and maybe a nice integrated amp with phono and a DAC from Marantz, Denon, or other reliable source.

At some point down the road he might be ready for new speakers, or a new TT.

It’s hard for audiophiles to “get this,” but this is not about what we would like. It’s about what he would like. Ron’s profile of him tells me that he needs a simple, maintenance and tweak free system.

It is hard for us to take off our audiophile hats!

i think we need to listen to what the fellow wants. We have a few clues now but perhaps we aren't asking the right questions. For instance , why is he looking for a change and what doesn't he like about his present system?

 

[Ron Resnick]

For the Living Voice Auditorium R25A loudspeaker maybe the Sugden A21 Signature is a better match than the Bel Canto C6i or the Schitt Ragornok 2?

 

[Folsom]

Living Voice Auditorium R25A loudspeakers $6,350
or
Fyne 501SP $4,800

Music Hall Stealth DD record player $1,649
or
Rega Planar 6 with Exact 2 MM $2,245

Heed Exilir $1,450
or
Bel Canto C6i $3,195 (includes DAC)

LinkPlay Wiim Pro Plus $249 + Qobuz account $13/month

Pro-Ject VC-S2 record cleaning machine $500

You haven't mentioned anything about room and speaker location against or away from wall...

Technics SL-1210GR $1800
ATVM95ML $170

EAR Phono Classic Black $1895

Yamaha R-N2000A $4000 or Moonriver 404 $3500

Optional keep existing speakers, Pi Speakers 2pi, Revel F36

Turntable makes Music Hall, Rega, etc look like what they are... (awful). Consistent speed they and VPI etc only dream about. Cart is easy to swap stylus on and is prized pretty well for being enjoyable to listen to. The Phono has tubes but I don't think they wear out very easily, and it is KEY to sublime sound in cheap setup. Both integrateds are natural to warm midrange. Trying to max on speakers here is silly I think.

There was more than one TT option but Jelco tonearms are no longer.

I excluded setups that would use SET type integrated because I get the impression having to swap tubes at some point is out of question? A single driver speaker for classical and Jazz on SET/lower power could be very enjoyable. That or corner horns. No idea what is possible here since you don't reply any of that info.

If I wanted a truly good stereo at the price point it would be super simple. TD124, SME12R ($2.5-4k), Vintage cart sub $500 + $200 stylus, Refurb Fisher 500C/ Eico 81/ Scott 220c ($1-2k), Pi Speakers 6pi ($3500). There are other combos too, but that would be HOT on my list. I'd also consider used JBL monitors with it if found at nice price, or Electrovoice used speakers possibly, or even Diatones.

 

[Ron Resnick]

The speakers are in his living room. The speakers can go either up against the front wall or 2 feet into the room.

He does not want tubes or vintage or used (other than dealer demo components).

Thank you.

 

[AudioHR]

You haven't mentioned anything about room and speaker location against or away from wall...

Technics SL-1210GR $1800
ATVM95ML $170

EAR Phono Classic Black $1895

Yamaha R-N2000A $4000 or Moonriver 404 $3500

Optional keep existing speakers, Pi Speakers 2pi, Revel F36

Turntable makes Music Hall, Rega, etc look like what they are... (awful). Consistent speed they and VPI etc only dream about. Cart is easy to swap stylus on and is prized pretty well for being enjoyable to listen to. The Phono has tubes but I don't think they wear out very easily, and it is KEY to sublime sound in cheap setup. Both integrateds are natural to warm midrange. Trying to max on speakers here is silly I think.

There was more than one TT option but Jelco tonearms are no longer.

I excluded setups that would use SET type integrated because I get the impression having to swap tubes at some point is out of question? A single driver speaker for classical and Jazz on SET/lower power could be very enjoyable. That or corner horns. No idea what is possible here since you don't reply any of that info.

If I wanted a truly good stereo at the price point it would be super simple. TD124, SME12R ($2.5-4k), Vintage cart sub $500 + $200 stylus, Refurb Fisher 500C/ Eico 81/ Scott 220c ($1-2k), Pi Speakers 6pi ($3500). There are other combos too, but that would be HOT on my list. I'd also consider used JBL monitors with it if found at nice price, or Electrovoice used speakers possibly, or even Diatones.

I concur with much of what you are saying. Although the friend may be adverse to the used market.

I believe that Ron identified that his friend would be OK in moving the speakers a few feet from the wall. This to me is a key piece of information. Lots of other questions to be asked though. Still if you can get the speakers right the other things should fall into place.

 

[Hi-FiGuy]

Bruce B said:
I will have to echo this recommendation...

I have the Maggie 1.7i speakers with a Parasound Halo Integrated. The Halo includes a decent phono pre as well as a built-in DAC that will do all sampling rates. I've paired this with a custom built laptop connected with my NAS. Can't get much better as far as I'm concerned. Someday I will pair it with a bang for the buck TT.

This, add Technics SL1500c comes with ortofon red and detachable head shell so they can switch out carts at will, headshells are cheep.
SL1500C has built in phono or with the flick of a switch can be hooked to and aux/cd input. Sumitomo Blue for $400 is an awesome upgrade cart.
The new Halo intergrated is the Hint 6.

 

[Ron Resnick]

I believe that Ron identified that his friend would be OK in moving the speakers a few feet from the wall.

No; two feet maximum.

 

[Rexp]

Aren't you a Debbie downer?

Well, it's my job on this project to make sure that doesn't happen.

And how are you going to do that? Go listen to some of these systems would be the best way. I can guarantee some of the more lifestyle as opposed to high end audiophile recommendations will be no better than what he has now.

 

[cjfrbw]

The hazards of being an audiophile co-dependant: "I spent 10,000 smackeroonies on this thing, and I ABSOLUTELY HATE IT! I don't even believe you have ears any more."