Stillpoints Ultra Vs - Wilson X1/Grand Slamms

[LL21]

You could add the Ultra base

hah! Actually, you're right, but i think this is plenty! The midbass has, as Roy Gregory stated (and Robert Harley) lightened and tightened. I am letting my ears acclimate to all the new midrange detail, far tighter and much more delineated upper bass and greater extension. For similar reasons, I also am taking my time with the 3 under the Velodyne.

 

[XV-1]

hah! Actually, you're right, but i think this is plenty! The midbass has, as Roy Gregory stated (and Robert Harley) lightened and tightened. I am letting my ears acclimate to all the new midrange detail, far tighter and much more delineated upper bass and greater extension. For similar reasons, I also am taking my time with the 3 under the Velodyne.

Wait til you try 3 under your GAT

 

[edorr]

Exactly...they have ceramic spheres inside in between top and bottom layer of the Ultra.

I think Mike used Combatix 9-series at one point and then tried N2S from Jonathan Tinn as well.

I am now the proud owner of said Combatix devices....

 

[edorr]

Correct, I have had the Ultra SS's (V very expensive) under my Maxx3's and on thick carpet for a few months and they sound a LOT better than the spikes.
Similar to Lloyd, most of the improvement imo is in the bass nuances which leads to less smearing in these frquencies - this in turn brings out better details in the mid's and upper frequencies without changing the character of the sound.

My audiophilia nervosa says I should try the stillpoint V's, whatever bit of common sense I have left says just try the Ultra SS. Big delimma....

 

[Jazzhead]

You could add the Ultra base

I don't think that is possible, with the U5 pointing downwards . It has a threading at only one of it's ends .

 

[Jazzhead]

8 + an LPI isolator...and 3 under the DD18---which i am still auditoning. The bass is tighter for sure...but for some reason the Auralex Subwoofer Platform allowed the bass to travel further thru the room...which means the deep bass impact was audible in many more locations which i think i prefer. Plus these things aint cheap...i think i may give the 3 back which are under the Velodyne.

Give it a try under the Gryphon , might be worth it . Assuming the amp is stable , seeing it's vertical configuration . .

 

[Bill Hart]

I'm using the Ultra SS (not the V) under my phono stage power supply, after trying quite a number of alternatives, which I cataloged here in a thread. I am also using the LP Isolator as a record weight on my turntable, to good effect. To summarize, the use under electronics gave me the best compromise among products that gave greater detail but added harshness or bite- the Stillpoints didn't create the bite that the Aurios did. On the turntable, the LP Isolator seemed to reduce an upper bass hump that gave records a more propulsive sound using the factory supplied clamp, but was probably an artifact- with the system set up now, it is quite 'pacific' and I like it.
I haven't changed out the feet under my speakers because I am currently using the Grand Prix feet with the fancy balls, on carpeting; ditto on the line stage and amp stands- which use the Monaco/carbon fiber stuff, and the same feet/special balls.

 

[rockitman]

I could now see that Stillpoints use ceramic spheres as a coupler in their supports - it seems similar to the Finite Element Cerapuc I use in my rack. I remember I have read somewhere that Mike Lavigne also uses some kind footers using spheres.

I have the big Cerapucs under my turntable. Makes me wonder how different these still points are when especially you campare them against the stillpoint price point.

 

[Enatai252]

I just had my Alexia's delivered yesterday and they will be on casters for the next few weeks while they break in....seriously considering getting the Ultra 5's for under the speakers instead of the basic spikes....will be watching this thread intently

 

[rockitman]

so obviously, if your speakers are on carpet/pad, stillpoints are out...

 

[Mike Lavigne]

so obviously, if your speakers are on carpet/pad, stillpoints are out...

i've used broad based footers on carpet in the past and they work, just not quite as ideally as on concrete, or wood over concrete. it's a matter of compression of the carpet over time. it gets quite solid. and the isolation mechanism does still work.

i used Grand Prix Audio Apex footers on carpet, and they sounded much better than spikes, even though the spikes went all the way thru the carpet. so i would expect that Stillpoints would still deliver most of their performance on carpet.

if the carpet was over a springy suspended wood floor then the problem is really the structure, not the carpet. as long as the floor itself is solid i'd try the Stillpoints.

 

[Bruce B]

so obviously, if your speakers are on carpet/pad, stillpoints are out...

I should try the Stillpoints then since I'm on hardwood. The casters are coming off soon!

 

[Enatai252]

Thanks for the insight Mike...I have carpet over slab and had some concerns about effectiveness....may still be worth a try

 

[Jazzhead]

8 + an LPI isolator...and 3 under the DD18---which i am still auditoning. The bass is tighter for sure...but for some reason the Auralex Subwoofer Platform allowed the bass to travel further thru the room...which means the deep bass impact was audible in many more locations which i think i prefer. Plus these things aint cheap...i think i may give the 3 back which are under the Velodyne.

In my experience with the UltraSS , I have found at times with certain components that although the bass tightens up , it may affect the balance such that it is restrictive to natural flow. Even though there is a better articulation and definition of notes it does not allow the component to breathe as freely. with natural rhythms . Different configurations help in this regard . The Ultras in conjunction with their Component stands are particularly helpful in restoring a balance between note development and progression . In most cases the best results obtained are by having the Ultras contact the body direct , facing upwards . However my Vitus Amp much prefers the Ultras not being directly in contact with the chassis .( Cant seem to get the pic to straighten) !!..... Just me 2 cents ...

 

[LL21]

Well another morning of listening...Ultra 5s are permanently screwed into the underside of the X1s. I also continue to play around with:

- LP Isolator on top of my Zanden transport (which again is already very solidly built and sits on top of HRS nimbus/couplers and an HRS M3 platform which sits on an isolation rack which sits on 1" thick slab of slate.

- 3 Ultra 5s for my Velodyne DD18 sub

X1s
Upper End:
- There is no question on Hadyn Orchestra...the strings retain all the tone i have worked so hard for years to get the way i like it.
- The strings are also far more delineated (25%?) with individual roisin and the texture of the bow against the string coming thru...but again without disrupting the tonality or the melodic line
- In other words, detail without making it so overt, that it distracts. ON the contrary, it enhances with effortless detail
Mids/voices:
- No change though with all the various upper and lower sorted out and more separated...there is more room in the audio spectrum to hear the voices better if you know what i mean
Bass:
- Upper bass far tighter...one would expect this. and it delivers
- Mid bass...it is lighter at first...but that reinforcement from the floor...while fun, is not music...its wood floorboards adding reverb
Decay:
- Here's where i was surprised...on 3 out of 5 tracks so far...i noticed in electronic deep house that the lowest bass note actually has a delicate light backdrop of notes that was always drowned out by the reverb of the floor...no longer Boom-Pulse of bass...now its Boom-a second boom...but an echo of delicate notes in the background that you literally could not hear before.

Velodyne DD18 - substitute Auralex Subwoofer Isolator platform with 3 Ultra 5s
- Here is a surprise twist which shows you do have to play around
- After leaving the Ultra 5s under the sub...i was surprised to find (perhaps because of some nodes at 32hz in the room), that i got a much larger reverb/'wwwhoooomp' that drowned out noise above this super low freqency.
- That cool high, delicate decay bit referenced above? GONE...drowned out by the bass. even when i turn the sub down...

CHANGE - Put Auralex Subwoofer Isolator platform back in...better
- That cool high, delicate decay bit referenced above? STILL GONE...i can hear decay...but not hi frequency...its low frequency decay instead...weird.
- Remember...this is how i've had my sub for about the last 3 years...so no surprise that i still cannot hear this high, delicate decay bit...i only heard it this morning when testing on the X1s this morning with the sub OFF...

CHANGE - Keep Auralex Subwoofer Isolator Platform but put 3 the Ultra 5s on TOP of the Velodyne DD18
- SH--T...much, much better. Dammit!
- Now even with the Gryphon on mute, i can hear individual beats, rhythms...and this thing is cut off above 38hz so normally its all whooomp
- That cool high, delicate decay bit referenced above? COMPLETELY INTACT...PLUS i get a third bass note down below...NOW THATs MUSIC!

LP Isolator on top of Zanden
- Here the mids and treble come out at you more...more 3D...10% more perhaps...but you know how it goes...when you hear that extra 10%, its hard to give it back

BOTTOM LINE?

1. I can see why the few people i know who've investigated these properly...end up with boxes and boxes of these things. The dealer said he has never installed them under speaker feet and had to take them out. And the last installations...the buyers ended up with 15-21 boxes...from speakers to components to more components...

2. I have 8 boxes already...one for each of the ones under the X1s. I am struggling to make the math work in my head about the 3 Ultra 5s sitting on top of the sub and the LP Isolator on the Transport (which if anything is the one to go back)...but i know what my ears tell me. I have been in this room for 8 years and never gotten the bass this tight and this properly dialed in...and its bloody good on 80% of my music because there is not always a lot down below 40hz...but now i admit its addicitively good.

More to come...I hate to think the Ultra 5s are staying on the Sub...i took one off, and it was not the same. All i can say is...i am definitely NOT going to ask the dealer to bring any more of these over!!! too much temptation!

 

[LL21]

In my experience with the UltraSS , I have found at times with certain components that although the bass tightens up , it may affect the balance such that it is restrictive to natural flow. Even though there is a better articulation and definition of notes it does not allow the component to breathe as freely. with natural rhythms . Different configurations help in this regard . The Ultras in conjunction with their Component stands are particularly helpful in restoring a balance between note development and progression . In most cases the best results obtained are by having the Ultras contact the body direct , facing upwards . However my Vitus Amp much prefers the Ultras not being directly in contact with the chassis .( Cant seem to get the pic to straighten) !!..... Just me 2 cents ...

Yes, see my post about the Velodyne...you do have to play a bit with these.

I also note that on the Zanden...the LP Isolator on the back right corner made things muddy...on the front left...lightweight but clear...same with back left...but front right corner...perfect. I suspect this is due to the fact that i may not have evenly put the HRS nimbus/coupers underneath evenly, and also perhaps the weight distribution of the unit itself. In any event...its struck the perfect balance on that corner...so for now its staying.

 

[LL21]

I should try the Stillpoints then since I'm on hardwood. The casters are coming off soon!

yes, would love your thoughts...Stillpoints in general were originally designed for heavy speakers. Also, more as an anecdote, most of the posts i've read were actually from Wilson owners.

 

[LL21]

so obviously, if your speakers are on carpet/pad, stillpoints are out...

I dont think so, Rockitman...Turntable below is using them on thick carpet and shows photos of the feet (Post #14)

 

[XV-1]

View attachment 9110

In my experience with the UltraSS , I have found at times with certain components that although the bass tightens up , it may affect the balance such that it is restrictive to natural flow. Even though there is a better articulation and definition of notes it does not allow the component to breathe as freely. with natural rhythms . Different configurations help in this regard . The Ultras in conjunction with their Component stands are particularly helpful in restoring a balance between note development and progression . In most cases the best results obtained are by having the Ultras contact the body direct , facing upwards . However my Vitus Amp much prefers the Ultras not being directly in contact with the chassis .( Cant seem to get the pic to straighten) !!..... Just me 2 cents ...

Agree. UltraSS are not a universal upgrade for everything. Outside of the speakers they did wonders with my cj GAT and TW Acustik tube phono stage. Not as successful under my cj tube mono blocks or the Pass xp-25 phono stage.

They can also sound better by mixing the cup down or up on the chassis. Best thing is to try and listen for one's self.

 

[XV-1]

I dont think so, Rockitman...Turntable below is using them on thick carpet and shows photos of the feet (Post #14)

And edorr post #11