My response was triggered by your associate making a statement such as he did
Instead of taking us off topic with somewhat of a personal attack, please explain what you consider to be innovative.
My response was triggered by your associate making a statement such as he did
Randall, it was you who made the statement, so perhaps you could get us back on topic and if my statement was construed by you to be a personal attack, that was certainly not my intention and I apologize
hj, I'm intrigued by that comment. When I heard these at a show many years I was very taken with their sound, and everyone around me was "zoning", as I have now learnt it's called. In fact, it inspired me to seriously get back into the game again!would say MBL with their rundumstrahler with the exotic looking mids and high units definetively get the innovation price from me , although not soundwise (heard just at shows)
My preferences change, my perceptions change. This is why we conduct in-room measurements for each speaker we get for review. Not only does it verify what we are hearing, but it also helps us properly set up each speaker to attain the best position for the speaker.
Jeff I guess that I am not singling you or anyone out but I do get dyspepsia when I see these pieces advertised on Audiogon at prices usually greater than the accommodation pricing or for one reviewer to take expensive cables and to cut them up, reterminate and sell off the pieces at a huge profit
IMO to sell these pieces at higher than the accommodation pricing makes the reviewer nothing more than a dealer. Things such as this serve no purpose other than to tarnish this hobby.
My response was triggered by your associate making a statement such as he did
We just need speakers that can make music! If they can, I'll call that innovative.
Isn't part of the problem with speaker innovation that we don't all agree what is good about any speaker? In that sense, there is no universally accepted innovation!
Isn't part of the problem with speaker innovation that we don't all agree what is good about any speaker? In that sense, there is no universally accepted innovation!
Yes, and we also do not agree on what is innovation!
I think there is plenty of innovation in loudspeaker design, but most of it does not show explicitly.
Developers must have models of what are the more important aspects in sound reproduction and how to manipulate the sound to reach some result. Most of the time the true innovation is in these models. It is from these models that later they choose the materials and technologies to manufacture their products.
We all would love to have them discussing their innovative models, but it is the last think they want to to do - usually they present the arguments that can be used for marketing, but nothing else. As we say - do not ask the old lady who wins her live selling her tasty cooking for the recipe.
As this is not only for loudspeakers - it is for all high-end equipment.
You know, I'm kind of sorry to have to post this, BUT my feeling is that this 'accommodation pricing' is a crock of BS
Why should a reviewer get an 'accommodation price', IMHO that just smacks of something that is suspicious and would entice dishonesty, if nothing else.
I remember well a few years ago, I had (the proverbial term being 'had') a friend who was a well known reviewer for one of the two big mags in audio. ( His name will go unspoken). This 'reviewer' tells me one day that is going to give a 'rave' review to an amp manufacturer's piece since he is getting this piece at an 'accommodation price'. Laughingly, he then proceeds to tell me that he really thinks the piece is a POS and he will sell it asap at a nice profit.
Needless to say, after this conversation, I proceeded to remove him from my sphere asap.
I think Steve's comments are very much on point on this issue...some may not like them, but IMHO that's just too bad![]()
Haha I think we could spend pages debating what is innovation and what products/manufacturers qualify![]()
Concise Oxford English Dictionary © 2008 Oxford University Press:
innovative /??n?v?t?v/
?adjective
featuring new methods or original ideas.
? creative in thinking.
So here's a definition of innovation taught at the MIT's Sloan Business School:
Innovation is the entire process by which an organization generates
creative new technological ideas (invention) and converts them into
novel, useful and viable commercial products, services, and business
practices for (potential) economic gain.
Now everyone would agree there is a big gap between the invention of the plow or Henry Ford's contribution to mass production and a company's ability to lay paint on to make their speaker look more sexy. But both examples fall within the definition.
A friend I see a lot of live shows with enjoys my big Soundlabs as much as an entry level pair of B&Ws. Of course, to us audiophiles, the differences are huge.
Maybe be the competitive advantage is getting a speaker like Magico (or choose a popular brand) to someone like Jonathan Valin who then constantly praises it, calls it revolutionary, puts it on the cover, compares everything to it, calls it best of show, and brings awareness to it any way he can.
hj, I'm intrigued by that comment. When I heard these at a show many years I was very taken with their sound, and everyone around me was "zoning", as I have now learnt it's called. In fact, it inspired me to seriously get back into the game again!
So what exactly do you find not agreeable with their sound, if I may ask?
Frank
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