The Problem of reproducing large scale Orchestral music

[D.Duttilleux]

At TLHP the price for HE and non-HE is nearly the same, would you recommend to go for the HE version?
Thanks

Yes!

The 5530ND seems to be the bomb nowadays.

I have an older pair of 4554s, but never used them.

 

[matthias]

The 5530ND seems to be the bomb nowadays.

They got a quite good review here:

1 inch compression drivers test

audiohorn.net

 

[D.Duttilleux]

As long as you are in the range of Qts 0.7 (-6db fs) to Qts 1.2( + 2db fs) driver you will have nice deep bass. AE Woofers are special made for this low fs &high qts. 25hz no problem

Dipole15 - Open Baffle Applications - Acoustic Elegance woofer

Dipole15 woofers are designed for open baffle bass applications. Featuring the Full Copper Faraday Sleeve (FCFS) for incredibly accurate reproduction.

aespeakers.com

On average, AE delivers high quality, at pretty steep prices though.
I've had some conversations with AE buyers who, for various reasons, weren't completely satisfied.

The extremely low inductance of the motors is one of the USPs, but one may wonder whether it matters, especially for OB-use.
Most people use the Dipole15 and 18 for the low-end up to about 500 Hz

I'd rather opt for 4x cheap 12" woofers.

An example:


4 units in parallel:

 

[DasguteOhr]

On average, AE delivers high quality, at pretty steep prices though.
I've had some conversations with AE buyers who, for various reasons, weren't completely satisfied.

The extremely low inductance of the motors is one of the USPs, but one may wonder whether it matters, especially for OB-use.
Most people use the Dipole15 and 18 for the low-end up to about 500 Hz

I'd rather opt for 4x cheap 12" woofers.

An example:
View attachment 162016

4 units in parallel:

View attachment 162018

I use modified emminence betas, i'm happy with it.
If I were building something new I would always use an active Ripol. First of all, it goes deeper than H,U frame bass solution and saves a lot of space in the room. Simply screw a baffle 1.2m high in front of it. Insert a tweeter horn + mill in 2x 10" or 12 widebanders and you have a 20hz - 20khz speaker system with high efficiency. Construction costs €3-4k with beautiful wood.
Tone tubby widebanders

Alnico Red - Tone Tubby

The Original Tone Tubby®, the favorite of Carlos Santana and many others. Rock-solid bottom end, silky rolled-off highs, and midrange that speaks to you. With ample clean headroom and plenty of power, this is a superb all-around speaker. 50 watt

www.tonetubby.com

One of best low cost horndriver b&c de250
Open at the back works as dipole avantage distorsion sinks and frequency response is alot flatter.

DE250 8Ω - HF Drivers - B&C Speakers

www.bcspeakers.com

 

[morricab]

I use modified emminence betas, i'm happy with it.
If I were building something new I would always use an active Ripol. First of all, it goes deeper than H,U frame bass solution and saves a lot of space in the room. Simply screw a baffle 1.2m high in front of it. Insert a tweeter horn + mill in 2x 10" or 12 widebanders and you have a 20hz - 20khz speaker system with high efficiency. Construction costs €3-4k with beautiful wood.View attachment 162060
Tone tubby widebanders

Alnico Red - Tone Tubby

The Original Tone Tubby®, the favorite of Carlos Santana and many others. Rock-solid bottom end, silky rolled-off highs, and midrange that speaks to you. With ample clean headroom and plenty of power, this is a superb all-around speaker. 50 watt

www.tonetubby.com

One of best low cost horndriver b&c de250
Open at the back works as dipole avantage distorsion sinks and frequency response is alot flatter.
View attachment 162062

DE250 8Ω - HF Drivers - B&C Speakers

www.bcspeakers.com

Yes the DE-250 is flat and smooth but those ripples throughout the band suggest the membrane is not very rigid and it has some modes. Albeit well damped. Not a fan recall of plastic dome diaphragms, which sound somewhat less realistic on high impact dynamics as they sound more distorted.

 

[Multiway]

A large well sorted front loaded horn system is as close as I get.

 

[August]

I also much prefer Odeon Semper.

Semper | Odeon Audio - Lautsprecher handgefertigt in Deutschland

www.odeon-audio.com

I will go and listen to some Odeon 32 factory upgraded with the Semper mids, tweeters and crossover this week, see if they live up to my horn curiosity.

 

[DasguteOhr]

Yes the DE-250 is flat and smooth but those ripples throughout the band suggest the membrane is not very rigid and it has some modes. Albeit well damped. Not a fan recall of plastic dome diaphragms, which sound somewhat less realistic on high impact dynamics as they sound more distorted.

I think you've told me ten times that you don't like the driver. but I never told you that I use a completely different diaphragm. There are four different ones for the driver, this one is quite a good one titanium nitride but i use a diffrent one from other big company.

Diaphragm B&C for DE250TN, DE254TN and DE502, 8 ohm, push buttons - Artsound and Lights

General Product type Diaphragm Brand B&C Speakers Reference DE250TN, DE254TN, DE502 Product code MMD5028M Informations Nominal impedance 8 ohm

www.artsound.gr

 

[morricab]

I think you've told me ten times that you don't like the driver. but I never told you that I use a completely different diaphragm. There are four different ones for the driver, this one is quite a good one titanium nitride but i use a diffrent one from other big company.

Diaphragm B&C for DE250TN, DE254TN and DE502, 8 ohm, push buttons - Artsound and Lights

General Product type Diaphragm Brand B&C Speakers Reference DE250TN, DE254TN, DE502 Product code MMD5028M Informations Nominal impedance 8 ohm

www.artsound.gr

Ah, well it helps to be transparent on how you use it…I would probably like that much more than the plastic version.

 

[D.Duttilleux]

"The latest version of Harbeth’s flagship, the Monitor 40.3 XD, benefits from the designer Alan Shaw’s “eX-tended Definition” upgrades. These consist of mostly in substantial improvements in cone material—bass and midrange drivers are now made from RADIAL 2, the company’s proprietary compound known for its lightness, rigidity, and extremely low coloration—and crossovers, which further refine the integration of all three drivers for improved coherence and transparency. Yielding one of the smoothest, most linear in-room responses I’ve ever measured with Omni-Mic, the 40.3 XD is capable of reproducing a symphony orchestra top to bottom with truthful tonal balance that never sacrifices vividness, vitality, involvement, color, body, texture, resolution, and palpable presence, not to mention that Harbeth drop-dead gorgeous midrange. It will also reproduce virtually any other kind of music with comparable fidelity while eliminating the speaker itself as a source of listening fatigue. Power handling, medium efficiency, and a benign impedance curve are such that it will play cleanly, with great authority, at very loud levels in all but mansion-sized rooms. Unless you require the bottom half-octave (where there is little actual musical content) at full volume, the bass has sufficient reach and slam down into the upper thirties as to obviate the need for a subwoofer on most acoustic music. Solid stands that place the tweeters at ear level are mandatory, while the dedicated Ton Träger stands allow the speaker to perform at its absolute best. This 40.3XD version displaces the 40.2 Anniversary as my reference and is now all around the best large three-way speaker in my considerable experience of the genre."


What do you think of this bold statement?

 

[morricab]

View attachment 162224
"The latest version of Harbeth’s flagship, the Monitor 40.3 XD, benefits from the designer Alan Shaw’s “eX-tended Definition” upgrades. These consist of mostly in substantial improvements in cone material—bass and midrange drivers are now made from RADIAL 2, the company’s proprietary compound known for its lightness, rigidity, and extremely low coloration—and crossovers, which further refine the integration of all three drivers for improved coherence and transparency. Yielding one of the smoothest, most linear in-room responses I’ve ever measured with Omni-Mic, the 40.3 XD is capable of reproducing a symphony orchestra top to bottom with truthful tonal balance that never sacrifices vividness, vitality, involvement, color, body, texture, resolution, and palpable presence, not to mention that Harbeth drop-dead gorgeous midrange. It will also reproduce virtually any other kind of music with comparable fidelity while eliminating the speaker itself as a source of listening fatigue. Power handling, medium efficiency, and a benign impedance curve are such that it will play cleanly, with great authority, at very loud levels in all but mansion-sized rooms. Unless you require the bottom half-octave (where there is little actual musical content) at full volume, the bass has sufficient reach and slam down into the upper thirties as to obviate the need for a subwoofer on most acoustic music. Solid stands that place the tweeters at ear level are mandatory, while the dedicated Ton Träger stands allow the speaker to perform at its absolute best. This 40.3XD version displaces the 40.2 Anniversary as my reference and is now all around the best large three-way speaker in my considerable experience of the genre."


What do you think of this bold statement?

He doesn’t say dynamics, beyond that it’s, well, bold…

 

[D.Duttilleux]

Ok, I'll shoot second:
It's the sound of plastic that dominates, so I don't really care about the rest.