Some interesting stuff at Munich 2016

FrantzM

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
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If you have a minute of time and a bit of patience I will tell you a story and at the end I'll ask also your opinion.
At Munich Hi End 2014 or 2015 I listen to a vynil played by a a huge Horn system (I don't remember If Acapella, Cessaro or Avantgarde). I loved that short piece of Music, sung by a tenor acompanied, I thought by Tympani or Grancassa, Percussions and a Choir. Only when I listened to the same piece played on Magico M7 plus CH Precision electronics (the same system assembled for this 2016 HiEnd) I realized that it was the great young Josè Carreras. This should be, for me and per se, a demostration that horn system was so coloroured that I couldn't have identified the voice of one of my favorite singers (I have at least 30 complete operas featuring Carreras). But, please, let's ignore this point and let's go on with my story. So last May 2015, once at home I made an internet research and I discovered the piece was the Kyrie, the incipit (the begin) of Misa Criolla by Ramirez. So I ordered the Decca CD (recorded in 1987) and I ripped it. Once I listened it on my home system I had a start and jumped on the chair: the Carreras voice was clear and wonderfully natural as usual on my system, but the Choir was smallest than I have heard in Munich and above all, the greatest difference concerned the percussions: no, it wasn't a Tympani or a Grancassa, it was a smallest drum...its sound reminded to me a drum once I heard in a concert given by a folk-pop group insiede a church near my house. Ok, I thought, the Magico system has much more bass extension than my Magneplanar 3.7 II, and this explains what a difference in percussions sound....
This year in Munich 2016 I heard once again that piece, played at least in 2 or 3 different rooms, every time played on a turntable ... Carreras sung "Senor ten piedad de nosotros" acompanied by the Choir and those enourmous percussions....
Once at home few days ago I was on YouTube looking for a Claudio Abbado in Lucerne video and...surprise!! I found the original video of Carreras who sung Kyrie of Misa Criolla, I suppose the video of the same recording session, as it used to be done in '80ies by Philips, Decca and DG which put in commerce at the same time CD and Video of the same recording session.
In any case....surprise!! All the percussions in that video are two drums, no Tympani or Grancassa, but the same type of drums I had heard in that church near my house!
So here is my own recent experience with two question for everyone who knows this piece: 1) Is the vynil "audiophile version" modified in order to increase the bass extension of percussions? 2) Or all those systems "bettered" the drums made them huge Tympani? Because, at the end of the game, my Magneplanar let me hear the original sound of the drums recorded .....
So please, can you help me to explain this matter?
Accuracy vs pleasing. I am with you Simone

There are been, in High End AUdio circles, a steady rise of the "whatever pleases you" movement and frankly it is a sensible strategy for the manufacturers, . They can continue to raise their prices churning things that please their customers. This has been accompanied by , IMO, a deviation from fidelity to the signal.
Obfuscation is the norm when it comes to discussions about accuracy, to fidelity to the source, the latest retorts are centered around the fact that since it is very difficult to impossible to achieve, we might as well embrace Pleasing ... Bose anyone?
 
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Audiophile Bill

Well-Known Member
Mar 23, 2015
2,258
651
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UK
Accuracy vs pleasing. I am with you Simone

There are been, in High End AUdio circles, a steady rise of the "whatever pleases you" movement and frankly it is a sensible strategy for the manufacturers, . They can continue to raise their prices churning things that please their customers. This has been accompanied by , IMO, a deviation from fidelity to the signal.
Obfuscation is the norm when it comes to discussions about accuracy, to fidelity to the source, the latest retorts are centered around the fact that since it is very difficult to impossible to achieve, we might as well embrace Pleasing ... Bose anyone?
> I find your views bizarre Frantz. You are insinuating that all manufacturers should ignore the consumer and build only products that measure well (your definition of fidelity?) - I hope you don't go into selling highend audio products as you'll sell very little.

Why can't you accept that there are products for everyone out there - that suit all tastes. It is good to embrace diversity of taste and opinion. If someone want to run a system that has a big pair of rose tinted specs then good for them. If you want every last ounce of detail rendered as faithfully to that recording studio, that is also fine.

> "...raise prices churning things that please their customers" - please! That is just an unrelated rant about an unrelated topic.

Back to the OP. Please would you send links to the recordings - I have not encountered this phenomenon you speak of. In my two systems, I can easily make out a bass drum, tympani, or snare drum irrespective of frequency response. My second system has Kef ls50s with very little extension - it is still easy to differentiate these drums as with my big Focals.
 

spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
8,259
792
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E. England
Re accuracy v euphony, I'd take the Cessaro Gammas anyday over the Magico M's. I don't doubt the presentation on the Magicos was more "truthful to source" in a narrow definition, but the music flew w/real emotion on the Cessaros.
I also get a real thrill out of listening to Johnny Cash and Elvis (and NWA) on my friend's in-van mp3, and Florence And The Machine and Beyonce on my GF's clock radio.
 
May 30, 2010
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Portugal
(...) Obfuscation is the norm when it comes to discussions about accuracy, to fidelity to the source, the latest retorts are centered around the fact that since it is very difficult to impossible to achieve, we might as well embrace Pleasing ... Bose anyone?
No Frantz, it is not obfuscation. People as me just ask for the clarification of your message to avoid long inconclusive debates fighting wind mills.

IMHO you are in a real dilemma - all of us would love to have the umbrella of science to choose our system but find that concerning stereo in this hobby the real choices are mostly motivated by our "heart" feelings, not exclusively by science and logic, that however can be of great help.

BTW, can you tell us about the three more accurate systems you have ever listened to so we can compare them? I must confess I would not be able to answer to this question - is my confession a real signal of obfuscation? :)
 
Jun 1, 2015
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Firenze - Italy
The recording is: Misa Criolla by Ramirez sung by José Carreras
image.jpeg
 
Jun 1, 2015
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Firenze - Italy
On YouTube you can easy find the Video of Kyrie Misa Criolla Carreras.

My question is: is it the vynil reissue (the recording was Made in DDD in 1987 by Philips) that makes the percussions so huge? Or is it the big loudspeakers?
This is only to understand ...not because I'd like to start a thread on: better the accuracy or better the emotions?
 

wisnon

Well-Known Member
Dec 12, 2011
2,704
109
63
On YouTube you can easy find the Video of Kyrie Misa Criolla Carreras.

My question is: is it the vynil reissue (the recording was Made in DDD in 1987 by Philips) that makes the percussions so huge? Or is it the big loudspeakers?
This is only to understand ...not because I'd like to start a thread on: better the accuracy or better the emotions?
Dunno, I have that track on my demo CD (SuperCD) for years now (the one in the Cathedral). The Mercedes Sosa version is also excellent.
 

PeterA

Well-Known Member
Dec 7, 2011
5,536
434
83
North Shore of Boston
Re accuracy v euphony, I'd take the Cessaro Gammas anyday over the Magico M's. I don't doubt the presentation on the Magicos was more "truthful to source" in a narrow definition, but the music flew w/real emotion on the Cessaros.
I also get a real thrill out of listening to Johnny Cash and Elvis (and NWA) on my friend's in-van mp3, and Florence And The Machine and Beyonce on my GF's clock radio.
Spirit, Do you mean the Magico M Project, the M5 or the M6?
 

spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
8,259
792
113
E. England
I think it was the M Project. The M's were impressive, don't get me wrong, but the Cessaros got my juices flowing a lot more easily.
Am I detecting a darker tone in Magicos? Some convergence btwn Rockports, Wilsons and Magicos going on, methinks.
 

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