Speakers for Kondo Ongaku... Please Help

morricab

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Iirc you are using miniDSP digital in/out with presumably 4 channels DAC after?

It is interesting how few DSP loudspeaker management devices ( aka digital crossovers ) offer digital input and output. I have wondered if an AES67 ( Dante / Ravenna ) setup with a crossover on Aoip input and output is around....
As Bill noted, I use two stereo DACs; a Metrum Octave mkII on the midbass and a Monarchy Audio M24 DAC on the high horn. Both are R2R (Metrum has unknown chips, 8 per channel and Monarchy has the awesome BB PCM63K). The Metrum feeds an Ayon Spark and the Monarchy feeds 300b monos from Taiwan (based on WE91 and designed by Thorsten Loeasch).

I only want to do digital if I have control of the DAC and amps that come after the processing. I learned this playing with the Behringer DEQ2496 which is a damn good digital processor if you go digital in and out and then use reclockers to remove jitter.
 

morricab

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One way around all this would be either a laptop or pc or audiophile server running your chosen crossover (preferably FIR based) made in Acourate or various other choices and then outputting via USB to a mch dac - there are various pro ones to choose from.
The DAC choice is , IMO, more important than the digital processor as long as it has sufficient floating point bits. A SHARC or similar FPGA will suffice...and good alogorithms. I haven’t heard many people DACs that are very good.
 

Solypsa

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One way around all this would be either a laptop or pc or audiophile server running your chosen crossover (preferably FIR based) made in Acourate or various other choices and then outputting via USB to a mch dac - there are various pro ones to choose from.
True. And in this case you could use an Aoip soundcard and DAC input ( both made for example by Lynx ). But as for standalone DSP it still seems rare. Note: I am not saying AES67 AoIP sounds better than, say, USB. Just that it might be nice to try.

And also, like @morricab having control over DAC and amp is pretty critical. I was imagining a chain of server ( or DAW ) to DSP to digital 'interface' all AES67, then output of digital 'interface' as whatever digital format the preferred DAC's want.

Sorry for OT posts ;)
 
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Nelsen

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There is a thread made by me discussing this matter but it went beyond the title of the thread. So I created this new thread to keep things in perspective and to help other members that might be facing similar situation.

I am very confused on speaker selection right now. I have a finish completed “audiophile” system upstairs consisting of Franco Serblin Ktema speakers, Accuphase C3900/A-250 pre/amp, Kuzma XL DC TT and Jadis JPS3 Phono with Silvercore MC Pro SUT and Siltech cable throughout. The system upstairs is perfect to my ears in the audiophile sense (perfect tonal, staging, transparency, crazy good bass, clean clear treble, engaging, fast, etc) and I have no desire to change nor upgrade anything right now.

I do however, have started building the second system downstairs and I am dead set on SET all tube amplification and gears. I want a system that is totally different to the system upstairs. I want to be engaged in the music emotionally where I get goosebumps and get spooked without any concerns nor the need to critique the system on “audiophile” checkboxes as I already have that “audiophile” checkboxes checked with my system upstairs. For the downstairs system I have bought Kondo Ongaku with Kondo G70 pre amp and Kondo flagship cable everywhere. Now comes the BIG CONFUSING decision....The speakers!!! Obviously due to the very expensive nature of the Kondo gears I have to maximize my investment. Meaning the speakers must be a perfect match for the Kondo and able for both to be driven optimally. The room/mancave downstairs is 4.85 X 8.5 meters, speaker can be places against the wall or with distance very flexible space arrangements. There are two wall corners on equal shape on right and left front wall. I want speakers that is NOT directional and not “audiophile” checkboxes sounding, I want everyone in the room regardless of their seating position to be able to enjoy the music (I have achieved this with the Canterbury SE loaner showing the prowess of dual concentric/point source speakers).

I have shortlisted my speakers considerations based on realistic price, local availability and short descriptions below;
- Canterbury SE: I am running this right now as loaner. I love it, it can engage me emotionally if only this speaker is not underpowered by my Kondo resulting in non existent “low/thump” bass I would’ve snatch this cheap 15 years old speakers already.
- Westminster GR: will have to buy brand new, no prior audition and it’s bloody expensive here. But folks said this is easier to drive than Canterbury SE.
- Avantgarde Messo Duo XD: there is one available locally new old stock. The guy bought it 2 years ago for $50.000 is the US and never even open the box. This one can be had for approx $35.000. No audition possible.
- Cube Audio Nenuphar Basis: seems like a good choice and it’s single point. Definitely will be vastly different to the system upstairs. No experience and never heard one. Glowing reviews everywhere and I am very keen on this speaker. My only concern is the price, it is very affordable I am wondering if this affordable speakers will play in the same league as the rest of the gears as basically this speaker (if I choose it) will be the cheapest on the entire system, seems to be counter intuitive considering typically speakers cost as much as two major front end components in most system. No audition possible but I actually am very keen on this speaker. If only the maker/manufacturer cheated and put much higher price I probably would’ve bought this speaker sight unseen/unheard.
- Viking Acoustic: I originally considered L’instruments for its horn design (I actually really really want to try horns). But the owner of Viking Acoustic told me that he won’t be able to fulfill my order until 2022 and he only have the Viking Acoustic Tube Master on stock for immediate purchase. He did recommended Tube Master to be superior against L’instruments for my system and room. Again I am cautious due to the very affordable price and wondering if this will perform at the same league as the rest of the system. No audition possible.
- Classic Audio Reference T-1.5. Glowing reviews everywhere. Proven unchanged design since long. Rather expensive, can only be ordered with confirmation of order meaning no audition have to buy blind.
- Audio Note AN/E Alnico Hemp: Highly suggested by an audiophile friend I really trust but I am afraid this typical layout will give me sonic signature to similar to my upstairs system. Relatively affordable and proven high performer. But like I said above, I am very keen to try different speaker design (horns/point source) and AN/E is not different. No audition possible must buy to try.
- Goebel Divin Marquis: my favorite dealer will have a pair for audition on May. Concern is power handling. Wondering if my puny 27 watters Kondo can drive this mammoth adequately. Expensive, so will not buy it if cannot be driven optimally with my Kondo.
- Line Magnetic LM-3 Field Coil: Chinese made horns, copy of WE horns design and supposedly to be really good just like the rest of the gear made by Line Magnetic. Off course it’s Chinese made so no prestige in owning one but if the sound is sublime I really don’t mind. I am half Chinese anyway LOL!
- Wolf Van Langa Son: glowing reviews everywhere and my favorite dealer happens to be the dealer and can order one for me. He have the WVL 33221 Berlin (flagship) on demo stock and offered to home audition the gigantic flagship from WVL. I am leery because of the size and I don’t feel good if my favorite dealer took the huge pain to home audition the humongous WVL 33221 Berlin and I ended up buying speakers from somebody else. Granted I spent $200K already with this dealer but still. He did told me that I can keep the WVL 33221 Berlin as long term loaner shall I decide to order WVL SON from him. Very interesting option indeed.

Above are all what I managed to gather these past few weeks. I am in the point of feeling anxious regarding this delicate topic....any advices or even new suggestions of brands are welcomed. Although anxious my logic still win over my head and I will take my time to find my dream and “different “ speakers to pair with my Kondo gears.
Thanks in advance folks!!
Ciao.
Da quello che capisco hai iniziato la costruzione della casa a pertire dal tetto.
Detto questo un mio caro amico Tannoysta possiede le Canterbury.
Dopo una lunga serie di tentativi e soldi spesi ha raggiunto questa configurazione.
Bi-amplificazione passiva con i Paravicini da 100watt parte bassa klimo Beltaine medio alta, preamplificatore strong Estro Armonico Nordlys.
Ascolta solo classica. Se cerchi impatto e dinamica sappi che Tannoy vuole potenza.
Personalmente considero le Tannoy casse che hanno troppa pretesa su alcuni parametri e questo le pone in condizioni essere poco efficienti.
Questo è quanto.
 

Zeotrope

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The DAC choice is , IMO, more important than the digital processor as long as it has sufficient floating point bits. A SHARC or similar FPGA will suffice...and good alogorithms. I haven’t heard many people DACs that are very good.
The NAGRA DACs are the only DACs I have heard that make me not want to listen to analog.
 

Zeotrope

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Hi,
I had the PS Audio DSD DAC. It’s nice, but no comparison to the Nagra (but of course it’s much cheaper). The violin sounds so natural with the Nagra. It’s better than analog (just as natural without any vinyl “artifacts”).
I haven’t tried the Nagra with and without the power supply. I understand the super capacitor supply is much better.
 

morricab

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The NAGRA DACs are the only DACs I have heard that make me not want to listen to analog.
Which one? They have three...Ever heard an Ayon DAC, CD player or streamer?
 

Nelsen

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Ciao,
Avevo il DAC PS Audio DSD. È carino, ma non è paragonabile al Nagra (ma ovviamente è molto più economico). Il violino suona così naturale con il Nagra. È meglio dell'analogico (altrettanto naturale senza alcun "artefatto" in vinile).
Non ho provato il Nagra con e senza alimentatore. Capisco che l'alimentazione del super condensatore è molto meglio.
Ho abbandonato il vinile 20 anni fa sostenendo che oramai il digitale era oramai maturo per competere alla pari con il miglior vinile.
La mia scelta tecnica è ricaduta sulla tecnologia zero oversampling il dac e stato costruito da un artigiano di alto livello .Considero questo dac un esempio pratico di come si debba costruire un oggetto che non faccia rimpiangere il vinile.
 
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Zeotrope

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Which one? They have three...Ever heard an Ayon DAC, CD player or streamer?
Ayon- no, I haven’t.
All 3 Nagra DACs have a similar sound. The Tube DAC is the one I own, which is a slightly improved version of the HD DAC.
Nagra will also upgrade them, so there is less obsolescence.
 

Nelsen

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Ayon- no, I haven’t.
All 3 Nagra DACs have a similar sound. The Tube DAC is the one I own, which is a slightly improved version of the HD DAC.
Nagra will also upgrade them, so there is less obsolescence.
Ho avuto nel mio sistema questo .
Un buon suono ma assolutamente lontano da un suono veramente top .
Buona musica .
PS
Mi piacerebbe che i possessori di dac audio note ci raccontassero qualcosa di loro .
nagra_dac_digital_audio_converter.jpg
 

morricab

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Ayon- no, I haven’t.
All 3 Nagra DACs have a similar sound. The Tube DAC is the one I own, which is a slightly improved version of the HD DAC.
Nagra will also upgrade them, so there is less obsolescence.
Thx. I have only heard the Classic DAC , which I found to sound too lean. Smooth, resolved but tonally lean and images somewhat flat compared to two different Ayon DACs (Skylla 2 and Stratos). My friend who owned the Classic DAC has become disappointed with it and is selling it. The rest of his system is Nagra; Classic preamp and VPA monos. Tube DAC May very resolve some of those issues but I haven’t heard it.
 

Zeotrope

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Thx. I have only heard the Classic DAC , which I found to sound too lean. Smooth, resolved but tonally lean and images somewhat flat compared to two different Ayon DACs (Skylla 2 and Stratos). My friend who owned the Classic DAC has become disappointed with it and is selling it. The rest of his system is Nagra; Classic preamp and VPA monos. Tube DAC May very resolve some of those issues but I haven’t heard it.
All the reviews of the HD DAC and Tube DAC have been overwhelmingly positive - have literally not read a review that wasn’t great. The Classic DAC is missing most of what makes the HD DAC and Tube DACs special…
 

morricab

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All the reviews of the HD DAC and Tube DAC have been overwhelmingly positive - have literally not read a review that wasn’t great. The Classic DAC is missing most of what makes the HD DAC and Tube DACs special…
Well, I will try to hear the Tube DAC at some point ... living in Switzerland should give me an opportunity. I don’t trust most reviews or reviewers...and I used to be one... I guess you could say I am a natural born skeptic...goes with my profession.
 
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Audiolimits

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I've been searching for quite a while for the ultimate speakers to go with my Ongaku. I've tried quite a few and have finally found the love of my life. They are the Destination Audio Nika's. 99db 16 Ohm. The match between them and Ongaku is magical. They are the most realistic sounding speakers i have heard. And play all Genre of music. After auditioning and owning several pairs of speakers over the years many others Ive had just sound hifiish and I always found myself critisizing the system.trying this tweak and that tweak to try and improve things, Picking out the tweeter, bass or mids. (Not with these) . These get you back into the music. With emotions flowing. It's so good none of that tweak stuff matters. I also love them because they are not beaming or honky, and you can listen off axiss. And they are beautiful to look at. I'd highly recommend anyone looking for a speaker to mate with Ongaku to give them a listen. Excellent product and Sam is a first class guy.
 

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Nelsen

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Ho cercato per un po' di tempo gli altoparlanti per eccellenza da abbinare al mio Ongaku. Ne ho provati parecchi e ho trovato l'amore della mia vita finalmente. Sono i Destinazione Audio Nika. 99dB 16 Ohm. La partita tra loro e Ongaku è magica. Sono gli altoparlanti dal suono più realistico che abbia mai sentito. E riproduci tutti i generi musicali. Dopo aver ascoltato e posseduto diverse coppie di altoparlanti nel corso degli anni, molti altri suonavano semplicemente in modo hifi e mi sono sempre ritrovato a criticare il sistema. Provando questo tweak e quello tweak per cercare di migliorare le cose, selezionando il tweeter, i bassi oi medi. (Non con questi) . Questi ti riportano nella musica. Con le emozioni che scorrono. È così buono che nessuna di queste cose di ritocco conta. Li adoro anche perché non sono raggianti o clacson e puoi ascoltare fuori asse. E sono belli da vedere. Consiglio vivamente a chiunque cerchi un oratore di accoppiarsi con Ongaku per dargli un ascolto. Prodotto eccellente e Sam è un ragazzo di prima classe.
Ciao .
Di quale Ongaku parli .
Quale serie hai? Mi interessa capire come li hai interfacciati ed il resto della catena , cavi inclusi .
Grazie e buona musica.
 
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Fred Crane

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I've been searching for quite a while for the ultimate speakers to go with my Ongaku. I've tried quite a few and have finally found the love of my life. They are the Destination Audio Nika's. 99db 16 Ohm. The match between them and Ongaku is magical. They are the most realistic sounding speakers i have heard. And play all Genre of music. After auditioning and owning several pairs of speakers over the years many others Ive had just sound hifiish and I always found myself critisizing the system.trying this tweak and that tweak to try and improve things, Picking out the tweeter, bass or mids. (Not with these) . These get you back into the music. With emotions flowing. It's so good none of that tweak stuff matters. I also love them because they are not beaming or honky, and you can listen off axiss. And they are beautiful to look at. I'd highly recommend anyone looking for a speaker to mate with Ongaku to give them a listen. Excellent product and Sam is a first class guy.
Looking good...glad the new positioning worked out!
 
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