Some CJ News

Feb 3, 2012
654
22
18
Melbourne
#61
thanks for your message mate.
yes, i went over to Spore and did some venturing around, auditioned the AR CDRef 8 plus the top of line Cary and new models from Wadia, all sounded bloody fantastic. but i need to actually audition one with the wilsons or similar qauds; nothing available with that config in this region at the moment. all speaker systems were either Thiel's, Genesis or Vandersteens. There was one room that had the ref8 playing with Avant Garde trio's, very impressive sound but too exaggerated as usual with the horns.

need to do some more sniffing around, should eventually end up with something or the other.
thanks for your message.
cheers, RJ
 

LL21

Well-Known Member
Dec 26, 2010
10,876
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#62
Hi Big Dog,

Good to read you got a chance in Singapore to do some listening...apparently a great place to do it. On Wadia which i have spent some time with (and ARC CD7, CD8 and DAC 8), i feel they are like Janos Starker vs Fournier. The Wadia feels like it has a slightly more 'exacting' presentation (STarker)...mind you, not 'exact' presenting as in accurate...i mean 'exacting' as in when Horowitz plays piano and you can hear him delineate between the keys more or STarker on cello...vs Fournier who presents a more fluid blend of notes off the Cello. Both great, both masters just a different impression.

If that means nothing to you, put another way, its like Snoop Dog vs Tupac. Snoop slides off the beat just a little looser than Tupac when he raps...but both are smooth, both are perfectly on time with the beat...but one just presents a slightly more exacting rap style vs the other.
 

LL21

Well-Known Member
Dec 26, 2010
10,876
107
63
#63
OK...you can tell i just finished a long week, am getting ready for a long weekend of work, and just logged on WBF...and am having a little fun while listening to the system...;)
 
Feb 3, 2012
654
22
18
Melbourne
#64
Hi mate , thanks for your message Advice, points noted.
Yes I understand what you are saying, felt that the ARC ref8 certainly sounded a bit more right, although the wadis was glorious to listen to as well. It also depends on cables, interconnects, system matching, power requirements etc...
At the end of the day, it is so Dan hard to tell, nothing compares to taking the unit home and hooking it ip directly to your own system with all parameters equal, and then doing a direct comparison.

I think at the moment my intentions are leaning toward the arc ref8, for now until something else comes along. I am not going to purchase right now due to the many other units out there that may be as good or better, don't really know...
One thing for sure is nothing comes close to a fine walker turn table, will have to leave aside the digital for now until I can actually take one home for trial.

In Australia it is very hard to find quality high end, most of the brands are very limited. I live in Melbourne and nearly a majority of the good stuff is available in Sydney , but none of the dealers over there are willing to lend.
My good buddy in Melbourne is a vary nice fellow, and he allowsme to lend for weeks. However, he doesn't have ARC, wadia or any of the top line stuff, only offers c-j, stello, Maximus, naim, Cary, quad, arcam & gear of that nature.

I guess I'll end up buying in Spore after all after sales service is going to be a long term issue.
That requires another night of wine and a quiet listen until I figure that one out!

Thanks, will be in touch,
RJ
 

LL21

Well-Known Member
Dec 26, 2010
10,876
107
63
#65
Good luck...seems like Singapore could be the way to go...you can pretty much find anything you want there...and in fact, probably easier there than many, many other major cities around the world.
 

LL21

Well-Known Member
Dec 26, 2010
10,876
107
63
#66
I have spoken with a dealer who is using the KT120s in the CJ ART amps...his quote was that the bass control was comparable to the Krells they also sell! He was stunned.
 

XV-1

Well-Known Member
May 24, 2010
1,834
222
63
Sydney
#67
I have spoken with a dealer who is using the KT120s in the CJ ART amps...his quote was that the bass control was comparable to the Krells they also sell! He was stunned.
Don't say that Lloyd. I am tempted to put 16 KT120's into my teflon prem 8a's, but not sure if bass control also carries a bit of fat/bloat compared to the 6550's? Expensive test.

cheers
 

LL21

Well-Known Member
Dec 26, 2010
10,876
107
63
#68
Don't say that Lloyd. I am tempted to put 16 KT120's into my teflon prem 8a's, but not sure if bass control also carries a bit of fat/bloat compared to the 6550's? Expensive test.

cheers
Hi Shane, my impression from the dealer is that the bass control was actually more tightfisted...i can ask him to clarify. Expensive test...but nowhere near as expensive as a new amp...that says a lot to me about the intrisnic quality of the CJ designs when they can with a few upgraded parts continue to sound so great after all these years!
 
Feb 3, 2012
654
22
18
Melbourne
#69
Don't say that Lloyd. I am tempted to put 16 KT120's into my teflon prem 8a's, but not sure if bass control also carries a bit of fat/bloat compared to the 6550's? Expensive test.

cheers
hello turntable, I understand your hesitation to try out the kt120's... I was feeling the very same way.

One thing I can tell you is the bass is far more superior than the 6550's. The kt120 has more guts, as well as mid-bass is way much lower and captures all the low notes that you've thought were there but never realized it until the kt120's unveils those notes even further.

It is a remarkable tube, and lifts the level of performance on c-j amplifiers that is comparable to some of the best out there! I just cannot understand why the hec c-j never tried this output tube before? perhaps it was the cost, or circuit designs, I really don't know, but one thing for sure is the competition is already incorporating kt120's on their designs.

For example; that new Audio Research Ref 150 is going to be a very hard match to beat. It excells in every sense of the word in highend audio, and can virtually drive any speaker system to it's full potential without having to use monoblocks. Even ARC enthusiasts currently using monoblocks have realized this.

Presently what I'm getting out of my little MV60SE is really not a mv60se, it is something totally different and drives my Quads with more control and overall dynamism compared to the LP70s, LP125 monoblocks and even the premier 140. I have listened extensively to all these amplifiers driving the very same Quad ESL 2905's. Of course with the original 6550C tubes there is a definite comparison and level of playback performace from each of these amplifiers. BUT with the KT120's in the MV60SE it's in a league of its own.

And in that case it would lead us to try out the new kt120's in each of these amps and then see exactly how far they excell... Would be a very interesting ride indeed!
If I had premier 8A's - oh! boy would I be smiling for many amplifier generations to come, and that is even if I would live that long to enjoy those kt120's, Ha!

cheers, RJ
 

XV-1

Well-Known Member
May 24, 2010
1,834
222
63
Sydney
#70
hello turntable, I understand your hesitation to try out the kt120's... I was feeling the very same way.

One thing I can tell you is the bass is far more superior than the 6550's. The kt120 has more guts, as well as mid-bass is way much lower and captures all the low notes that you've thought were there but never realized it until the kt120's unveils those notes even further.

It is a remarkable tube, and lifts the level of performance on c-j amplifiers that is comparable to some of the best out there! I just cannot understand why the hec c-j never tried this output tube before? perhaps it was the cost, or circuit designs, I really don't know, but one thing for sure is the competition is already incorporating kt120's on their designs.

For example; that new Audio Research Ref 150 is going to be a very hard match to beat. It excells in every sense of the word in highend audio, and can virtually drive any speaker system to it's full potential without having to use monoblocks. Even ARC enthusiasts currently using monoblocks have realized this.

Presently what I'm getting out of my little MV60SE is really not a mv60se, it is something totally different and drives my Quads with more control and overall dynamism compared to the LP70s, LP125 monoblocks and even the premier 140. I have listened extensively to all these amplifiers driving the very same Quad ESL 2905's. Of course with the original 6550C tubes there is a definite comparison and level of playback performace from each of these amplifiers. BUT with the KT120's in the MV60SE it's in a league of its own.

And in that case it would lead us to try out the new kt120's in each of these amps and then see exactly how far they excell... Would be a very interesting ride indeed!
If I had premier 8A's - oh! boy would I be smiling for many amplifier generations to come, and that is even if I would live that long to enjoy those kt120's, Ha!

cheers, RJ
Hi Big dog. Yea still tossing up on whether to go the KT 120's - I will probably have to do it, but would like someone else with the big cj mono's to go first :)

I have heard the ARC Ref 150 driving Sasha's - they were running out of steam when I turned the volume up and were not sounding that great at those volumes, even the salesman said the room was too big. So not quite the world beaters. Sasha's are a hard speaker to drive thou. I am sure the Ref 250's would be better thou.

cheers
 

XV-1

Well-Known Member
May 24, 2010
1,834
222
63
Sydney
#71
Hi Shane, my impression from the dealer is that the bass control was actually more tightfisted...i can ask him to clarify. Expensive test...but nowhere near as expensive as a new amp...that says a lot to me about the intrisnic quality of the CJ designs when they can with a few upgraded parts continue to sound so great after all these years!
yes please Lloyd, that would be awesome to get some clarification. I do not want bigger bass or upper bass bloat whatsoever.
 
Feb 3, 2012
654
22
18
Melbourne
#72
Good day Loyde,

Yes Sir! that is defintely the bass of the KT120's, no boubt!
As I keep saying they are in a different league to anything I have come across in push pull designs using pentode or ultra-linear. I remember back in 2002 using 16 KT90's in my Reference 350 monoblocks, which was not bad for a 350 watt output stage- driving a pair of maggies MG3.5/R. However, in this point of time the much smaller MV60SE driving my Quads - well there is no comparison to those massive monoblocks, sorry! The monoblocks don't even come close, nor when they had the original 6550 tubes in them. Yea sure they could drive a house off the cliff, but I really don't need that type of output in the first place. One would have to compromise between The absolute sound, vs just loudness or pure control and a wonderful soundstage. The 16 6550's in those monoblocks were no where near the finesse of just 4 kt120's in terms of - depth, perception, timbre, accuracy, soundstage and control; probably one of the biggest assets of the kt120 is the control it has over the full frequency range.

And this leads to the other new venture of mine - I sold off my Alexandria's!
A good buddy of mine in Spore did a demo of the X2's in full glory, and boy did they sound wow! I finally realized that this level of reproduction is only obtainable if you have the right ROOM and spacing for the X2's- and I don't! There really is no point in having a so called high-end system if you don't have the one critical factor right - the listening room! So when I got back which was just about a week ago, I took the big x2's over to a friendly surgeons place and they sounded remarkable! So it seems he has the room, and plenty of it! It's a massive hall which ends in a "u" shape where you could play cricket or rugby on it. Anyway the Alexandria's seem to be at home and in it's true place, and so I never looked back.

Which now leads to a re-adjustment; I moved the Quads to the bigger room where the x2's were, and they seem to be in it's place as well. The overall soundsatge is not as big as the X2's, but everything else is as good as one would hope for, simply breath taking!
It's interesting to note that the room plays such a huge role; smaller systems can shift up at reamarkable levels in overall performance with the perfect room, whereas bigger speaker systems never sound their true potential in the wrong room (although according to specs seems to be right); I guess you really have to try it out for yourself rather than just go by the reviews...

Happy listening to all, and please get that room sorted out if you still haven't; afterall you owe it to your system!
Cheers, RJ
 

LL21

Well-Known Member
Dec 26, 2010
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107
63
#73
yes please Lloyd, that would be awesome to get some clarification. I do not want bigger bass or upper bass bloat whatsoever.
I have emailed and will let you know when he replies.
 

LL21

Well-Known Member
Dec 26, 2010
10,876
107
63
#74
Good day Loyde,

Yes Sir! that is defintely the bass of the KT120's, no boubt!
As I keep saying they are in a different league to anything I have come across in push pull designs using pentode or ultra-linear. The 16 6550's in those monoblocks were no where near the finesse of just 4 kt120's in terms of - depth, perception, timbre, accuracy, soundstage and control; probably one of the biggest assets of the kt120 is the control it has over the full frequency range.

And this leads to the other new venture of mine - I sold off my Alexandria's!

Cheers, RJ
On Point 1: great!!! congrats! On Point 2: ...you did WHAT?!?! kidding...;) i think the Quads are amazing speakers and with your electronics, they must be magic and that is what we are all after in the end.

Plus, you've likely plenty of cash now to do something else with...a life's supply of endless music! Enjoy!
 

LL21

Well-Known Member
Dec 26, 2010
10,876
107
63
#75
yes please Lloyd, that would be awesome to get some clarification. I do not want bigger bass or upper bass bloat whatsoever.
Hi. I got a detailed explanation...here are the key excerpts straight from the email:

- KT120s have a snap and conrol that are similar to NOS GE 6550...but with more power
- Doubtful the bass will be too much; just more focused, very tight and not overdamped...but with as little bloat as he's ever heard from tubes (in 35-40 years)
- Check with Ed at CJ about putting them in...due to higher current requirements for KT120. It can be done on Premier 4, but it requires some changes to diodes and resistors to do it.

Hope that helps. This is from someone i have done business with for over a dozen years and bought 3 CJ pieces from...and i do trust him. He is one of the few no BS guys who loves this hobby and finds loyal customers because he gives them honest answers. I live 3000 miles away and i still do business with him.
 

XV-1

Well-Known Member
May 24, 2010
1,834
222
63
Sydney
#76
Hi. I got a detailed explanation...here are the key excerpts straight from the email:

- KT120s have a snap and conrol that are similar to NOS GE 6550...but with more power
- Doubtful the bass will be too much; just more focused, very tight and not overdamped...but with as little bloat as he's ever heard from tubes (in 35-40 years)
- Check with Ed at CJ about putting them in...due to higher current requirements for KT120. It can be done on Premier 4, but it requires some changes to diodes and resistors to do it.

Hope that helps. This is from someone i have done business with for over a dozen years and bought 3 CJ pieces from...and i do trust him. He is one of the few no BS guys who loves this hobby and finds loyal customers because he gives them honest answers. I live 3000 miles away and i still do business with him.
thanks Lloyd

Sounds a goer for my next tube set.

cheers

Shane
 

LL21

Well-Known Member
Dec 26, 2010
10,876
107
63
#77
thanks Lloyd

Sounds a goer for my next tube set.

cheers

Shane
Great! Glad it was of some help. How's the system sounding? Must be amazing!
 

XV-1

Well-Known Member
May 24, 2010
1,834
222
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Sydney
#78
Great! Glad it was of some help. How's the system sounding? Must be amazing!
Pretty good Lloyd. I have a bit / lot of 40 Hz problem in my room which = mud. Hooked up a behringer tube parametric equalizer and it has done wonders with the 40 Hz problem. 40 Hz is a real issue to even get fixed with huge bass traps. More work to do.
 

LL21

Well-Known Member
Dec 26, 2010
10,876
107
63
#79
Pretty good Lloyd. I have a bit / lot of 40 Hz problem in my room which = mud. Hooked up a behringer tube parametric equalizer and it has done wonders with the 40 Hz problem. 40 Hz is a real issue to even get fixed with huge bass traps. More work to do.
Hey Shane...i remember that 'node' you were frustrated with. I had talked about trying to 'cancel' it with some of kind 40hz signal at reverse phase business...all theory...but equalizer seems much more direct and to the point. when you've had SS amps like the Gryphon in your room in the past, just curious...did you notice any change at all in the 40hz signal?...any tighter? i am just wondering if the KT120s would make a difference or not. i am sure they would be great in any event...but perhaps not fix the 40hz issue if it is a node problem in the room itself.

You could possibly email Jeff Hedback who invented the Auralex materials...he has posted on my thread about the Auralex subwoofer platform...he is very knowledgeable and helpful about bass traps that very scientifically designed/placed. he is a member here.

Jeff Hedback
HdAcoustics
Acoustical Design & Consulting
 

XV-1

Well-Known Member
May 24, 2010
1,834
222
63
Sydney
#80
Hey Shane...i remember that 'node' you were frustrated with. I had talked about trying to 'cancel' it with some of kind 40hz signal at reverse phase business...all theory...but equalizer seems much more direct and to the point. when you've had SS amps like the Gryphon in your room in the past, just curious...did you notice any change at all in the 40hz signal?...any tighter? i am just wondering if the KT120s would make a difference or not. i am sure they would be great in any event...but perhaps not fix the 40hz issue if it is a node problem in the room itself.

You could possibly email Jeff Hedback who invented the Auralex materials...he has posted on my thread about the Auralex subwoofer platform...he is very knowledgeable and helpful about bass traps that very scientifically designed/placed. he is a member here.

Jeff Hedback
HdAcoustics
Acoustical Design & Consulting
Hi Lloyd.

I had the D'Agostino momentum stereo amp for the last two weeks and the Ayre monoblock mxr's for the week before that. The momentum amp is really really good , a bit tighter bass / upper bass but no real difference to the 40hz room node. See pics below

The parametric equalizer made a bigger impact on the sound than either of the ss amps.

Something I really have to look at, however will be a significant change to current room layout as I have no free corners for bass traps.



 

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