Shoot out at the OK corral!

[TBone]

However, does got to show that we cannot believe all of the things that we read in print.

But but but ... how are we mortals going to assemble a "great" system without such reviewer insight ...

 

[mep]

LOL, very "diplomatic" response ...

Ha ha. It was real diplomatic wasn't it? I'll take fact over fiction any day of the week. If I present information that comes from a very well-respected reviewer like MC and you want to tell me he has no idea what he is talking about, I want to see some facts that backs up your assertion. If that's being argumentative, so be it.

 

[TBone]

Ha ha. It was real diplomatic wasn't it? I'll take fact over fiction any day of the week. If I present information that comes from a very well-respected reviewer like MC and you want to tell me he has no idea what he is talking about, I want to see some facts that backs up your assertion. If that's being argumentative, so be it.

Again, please stop putting words into peoples mouths (you do this constantly) ... when did I claim he has no idea what he's talking about. I simply "hinted" that experienced owners who have lived with said product over a long period of time usually have done their due-diligence - and therefore have more APPLICABLE experience with the subject matter at hand.

And let's count the MANY errors that even some of the most respected reviewers have made over the years.

tb1

 

[Bill Hart]

Does that mean in 2010 Davey thought the tweeters were Esotar just like MC said in 1992?

I wasn't trying to play 'gotcha,' I was actually focused on the OP's review and discussion of the driver elements to the extent it provided additional information. I'm taking the high road, have no interest in proving anybody right or wrong. My main contribution to this thread- re optimization, rather than 'single variable' testing- was already addressed.

 

[microstrip]

Sometimes, an image is better than a thousand words ...

An acquaintance of mine who loves DIY got a pair of them very cheap at eBay with damaged coils, send them to the factory in Denmark to be repaired and built a very nice pair of Guarneri copies.

 

[microstrip]

(...) And let's count the MANY errors that even some of the most respected reviewers have made over the years.

tb1

We should consider that most of the time the speaker manufacturer will not disclose who manufactures the units he is using. Reviewers most of the time use word of mouth information coming from distributors or other sources that they can not confirm. They do the best to please our curiosity, but they can not be considered 100% sure.

Revealing the manufacturer of the units is sometimes dangerous - a few naive people will sum the value of similar looking units in DIY shops, make a rough calculation and immediately post their indignation about speaker manufacturer high margins!

 

[TBone]

It is why I discard strongly negative reviews - most of the time they are due to the inability of the reviewer of creating a system or proper listening conditions for this precise equipment or negative biases.

Well stated, it's amazing how some equipment sonically changes - better or worse - depending on the system it resides. My own Ikemi is case in point, a light weight player that is so very easy to transport, I've taken it with me for demonstration purposes often. I've played it in so many systems to date, some which made it sound so gray & uninvolving, it made me wonder why I love it to Death.

Alice Cooper.

 

[Andre Marc]

I did, but I did it unintentionally. I bought a pair of subs to go with my Def Tech speakers that cost almost $2K each and now I'm using them with the LS50s. My custom made Sound Anchor stands for the LS50s cost over half as much as the LS50s. Anybody else doing that? Does Davey have the SF stands to go with his SF speakers? If so, are those the stands you put the LS50s on? According to Martin Colloms, the stands are "no less than 39" tall" which is pretty tall and would possibly place the center of the LS50 driver over the top of your head. Now, since according to Davey Martin Colloms got it all wrong with regards to what drivers are in the GH cabinets, maybe Martin can't measure speaker stands either and the height is actually just perfect for the LS50s.

But back to your premise that no one is using a $2K sub with a pair of $1500 speakers because for $3500 you can really buy something special. Really? Like what?

I do know that you had your subs well prior to purchasing the KEFs. That is understood.

You make ALOT of assumptions my friend. Davey does have the dedicated stands for the GH. When we placed the KEFs on them
the driver was EXACTLY at ear height. Perfect. The GH are not much bigger than the LS50s.

What can you buy for $3500? Harbeth Compact 7ES3, three different superb Spendor models. A KEF R700, with a UniQ driver,
Several excellent Proac models, Marting Logan ESLs, and dozens and dozens more of every flavor under the sun.

 

[Andre Marc]

Davey, nice post ...

1st, I have no experience with your specific speakers so I certainly won't quote some reviewer who probably has MUCH less experience with said equipment than the long time owner. That would be extremely presumptuous, wouldn't it (notice no question mark)

Davey, if you don't mind me asking, how "small" is your room, and therefore do you listen in the "near-field". I've recently moved from a relatively small dedicated listening room to a much bigger non-dedicated living room with HT system intertwined ... a learning experience & project upon itself.

tb1

TBone, Davey's room is small, but sounds excellent. He has some smart treatments, and he sits roughly 5 feet from the speakers.
He also has some nice high ceilings. The whole house is rather lovely.

My room is not much bigger, about maybe a 1/4 bigger, and sit 8 feet from my speakers (Thiel CS2.4)

 

[TBone]

TBone, Davey's room is small, but sounds excellent. He has some smart treatments, and he sits roughly 5 feet from the speakers. He also has some nice high ceilings. The whole house is rather lovely.

Davey seems like a very nice guy who's truly knowledgeable and very proud of his system, so I'm not surprised you enjoyed your visit ... my old room was similarly small, although a touch bigger. Some speakers, especially smaller "monitor" variants, are usually preferred with near-field listening, would you agree?

tb1

 

[Andre Marc]

Davey seems like a very nice guy who's truly knowledgeable and very proud of his system, so I'm not surprised you enjoyed your visit ... my old room was similarly small, although a touch bigger. Some speakers, especially smaller "monitor" variants, are usually preferred with near-field listening, would you agree?

tb1

Yes, I agree, DaveyF is a very nice host with a wonderfully optimized system. If not for other obligations I could have stayed all night.

Agree, monitor variants in general are are preferred for near field.

I almost crapped myself when he showed me some of his rare pressings. I don't have a turn table set up at home, but when I get the chance
I enjoy vinyl, but then again, I don't give a hoot about the format, just the music.

 

[TBone]

(Thiel CS2.4)

My experience with Thiel is limited to only a few demo's/auditions (models# I forget), the one thing I specifically recall about one specific in-home audition though ... when supplied with a good source & powered by older Classe amps ... truly impressive.

tb1

 

[Andre Marc]

My experience with Thiel is limited to only a few demo's/auditions (models# I forget), the one thing I specifically recall about one specific in-home audition though ... when supplied with a good source & powered by older Classe amps ... truly impressive.

tb1

My CS2.4s have been in continuous production for almost 12 years. I think they are on to something.

FYI, currently drive them with 20 watts of Carver tube power and 50 watts of Audio Research power with absolutely no issues.

 

[TBone]

DaveyF is a very nice host with a wonderfully optimized system / I almost crapped myself when he showed me some of his rare pressings. I don't have a turn table set up at home.

I'm surprised that experience didn't make you rush out ... and buy a LP12.

tb

 

[Andre Marc]

I'm surprised that experience didn't make you rush out ... and buy a LP12.

tb

Unfortunately, Daveys TT is being modded and readied for action..it was all digital this night.

Vinyl is not for me personally, but I am more than happy to let others do the obsessing, tweaking, calibrating, and
measuring while I sit by butt down to do the easy part...enjoy!!

I have 5000 CD/SACDs and 500GB of hi rez stuff to keep me busy..

 

[TBone]

Davey, my apologies for hi-jacking your thread ...

Unfortunately, Daveys TT is being modded and readied for action

Perhaps it's the Linn LP12 culture, but I'm betting many a LP12 owner would "keel" to upgrade.

I have 5000 CD/SACDs and 500GB of hi rez stuff to keep me busy.

SACD playback within my system has been mostly disappointing to date, except for the odd exception (all very expensive and hardly justified considering the available software I covet) but that said, one day I wish to adopt a hi-end computer based hi-rez source. Certainly that day beckons ... but unfortunately, I don't think it's going to be an easy transition within the context of my present system ...

tb1

 

[Andre Marc]

Davey, my apologies for hi-jacking your thread ...



Perhaps it's the Linn LP12 culture, but I'm betting many a LP12 owner would "keel" to upgrade.





SACD playback within my system has been mostly disappointing to date, except for the odd exception (all very expensive and hardly justified considering the available software I covet) but that said, one day I wish to adopt a hi-end computer based hi-rez source. Certainly that day beckons ... but unfortunately, I don't think it's going to be an easy transition within the context of my present system ...

tb1

Check out any of the Reference level Marantz players and true DSD SACDs....I have not heard better digital excluding stratospherically priced front ends.

 

[TBone]

Check out any of the Reference level Marantz players and true DSD SACDs

Recently auditioned a new Marantz "reference level" SACD player - and was impressed to a degree.

Actually, its CD performance impressed me more (not because it's was better than SACD, rather because it was better than anticipated considering my prior experiences with such players). The ONLY time I've been impressed with SACD as a true high-rez source was when playing true DSD material.

Hell, even the famed and much over-hyped Sony SCD1/777 players (which didn't fair well in my system) were relatively impressive when playing DSD based material ... but alas ... still not enough DSD based material exist (which I covet) to justify the expense.

Never-the-less ... the Marantz proved to be a very nice player indeed.

If and when I decide to buy into hi-rez digital ... hopefully it will include all digital formats.

tb1

 

[Andre Marc]

Recently auditioned a new Marantz "reference level" SACD player - and was impressed to a degree.

Actually, its CD performance impressed me more (not because it's was better than SACD, rather because it was better than anticipated considering my prior experiences with such players). The ONLY time I've been impressed with SACD as a true high-rez source was when playing true DSD material.

Hell, even the famed and much over-hyped Sony SCD1/777 players (which didn't fair well in my system) were relatively impressive when playing DSD based material ... but alas ... still not enough DSD based material exist (which I covet) to justify the expense.

Never-the-less ... the Marantz proved to be a very nice player indeed.

If and when I decide to buy into hi-rez digital ... hopefully it will include all digital formats.

tb1

Understood. For me there are too many SACDs that are the definitive digital versions. There are no better digital versions than the
Bob Dylan, Elton John, Rolling Stones, Moody Blues, and John Coltane true DSD SACDs.

I suggest you check out the new Marantz SA-14S1 SACD player/DSD/PMC DAC.

It plays CDs, SACDs, and has three digital inputs that decode 192 Khz PCM and DSD, via the USB input.

http://us.marantz.com/us/Products/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?CatId=ReferenceSeries&ProductId=SA14S1

You want it..you got it.

 

[mep]

I wasn't trying to play 'gotcha,' I was actually focused on the OP's review and discussion of the driver elements to the extent it provided additional information. I'm taking the high road, have no interest in proving anybody right or wrong. My main contribution to this thread- re optimization, rather than 'single variable' testing- was already addressed.

I'm not trying to play "gotcha" either, I'm just looking for some truth.