Shoot out at the OK corral!
- Thread starter DaveyF
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Who wants a "lean and mean" speaker cable? I couldn't use my MIT bi-wire cables with the magic network boxes so I had to dig out an old pair of Synergistic Research cables that have the power supply to make them behave. They sound great with the LS50s.
These were cringe-worthy DSD files I provided!
See? I was wrong twice in the same day!
I have some killer drum tracks that I use to test systems with. I brought them to work where we have the LS50 and played them. I just about fell of my chair. I could not believe the way the LS 50s were reproducing the bass. Absolutely amazing. I kept thinking boy, had I forgotten how these speakers sounded and had *this much* bass. Right then my chief designer walks in and says he had just added the new Revel sub to the room! The sub was actually behind me in the corner. He had used the DSP programming to blend the sub with the LS50. The integration was amazing. I could swear the bass was coming out of the LS50 cones. Even after he told me I could not localize the sub.
The Revel sub took this speaker to a subliminal level. To this day I can't get over the amazing transformation that Revel provided to the set up.
So count me in the (converted to) subwoofer camp when it comes to LS 50. Of course, getting the subs placed and blended into the LS50 with smooth response is key. There will be many ways to do it wrong and have it be boomy, etc.
The Revel sub took this speaker to a subliminal level. To this day I can't get over the amazing transformation that Revel provided to the set up.
So count me in the (converted to) subwoofer camp when it comes to LS 50
. Of course, getting the subs placed and blended into the LS50 with smooth response is key. There will be many ways to do it wrong and have it be boomy, etc.I was not sure you could handle being wrong twice in one day.
I really like the Mytek and I'm high on DSD files. One thing I'm pretty sure of is that how you heard the LS50s is not the way I hear them. I have four subs with 14" drivers with each of the four drivers having their own 1800 watt amp (not to mention another eight 14" passive radiators). My LS50s are sitting on custom made stands from Sound Anchor. I'm powering the LS50s with a Krell KSA-250 amp. There is nothing thin, bright, lean, or stressed sounding with my setup.
I have some killer drum tracks that I use to test systems with. I brought them to work where we have the LS50 and played them. I just about fell of my chair. I could not believe the way the LS 50s were reproducing the bass. Absolutely amazing. I kept thinking boy, had I forgotten how these speakers sounded and had *this much* bass. Right then my chief designer walks in and says he had just added the new Revel sub to the room! The sub was actually behind me in the corner. He had used the DSP programming to blend the sub with the LS50. The integration was amazing. I could swear the bass was coming out of the LS50 cones. Even after he told me I could not localize the sub.
The Revel sub took this speaker to a subliminal level. To this day I can't get over the amazing transformation that Revel provided to the set up.
So count me in the (converted to) subwoofer camp when it comes to LS 50
Great post! Price on the Revel sub?
I have some killer drum tracks that I use to test systems with. I brought them to work where we have the LS50 and played them. I just about fell of my chair. I could not believe the way the LS 50s were reproducing the bass. Absolutely amazing. I kept thinking boy, had I forgotten how these speakers sounded and had *this much* bass. Right then my chief designer walks in and says he had just added the new Revel sub to the room! The sub was actually behind me in the corner. He had used the DSP programming to blend the sub with the LS50. The integration was amazing. I could swear the bass was coming out of the LS50 cones. Even after he told me I could not localize the sub.
The Revel sub took this speaker to a subliminal level. To this day I can't get over the amazing transformation that Revel provided to the set up.
So count me in the (converted to) subwoofer camp when it comes to LS 50
Great to hear Amir! I have the same sensation when I listen to my LS50s plus 4 subs. It's just one big unified soundstage.
IMHO, the Nordost's are a very fast and transparent cable. I also feel that they have great high end extension. Coming from the Cardas camp in the past, I feel the Nordost's are a LOT more extended in the top end and more revealing overall. Again IMO, the LS50's do benefit from a sub, BUT that sub will need to be fast and clean and of commensurate quality.
I also believe after hearing the LS50's that they are ideal for a small room...NOT ideal for a large room, where physics comes into play regarding the driver size. As they say..."horses for courses".
I also believe after hearing the LS50's that they are ideal for a small room...NOT ideal for a large room, where physics comes into play regarding the driver size. As they say..."horses for courses".
Sorry mep, BUT you're not quite right about the drivers.. The SF GH woofer was made by Audio technology and NOT Scanspeak ( although to be fair, audio technology is owned by Per Skaaning---the founder of Scan Tech). The tweeter is in fact a highly modified Dynaudio Esotec ( I believe) and not an Esotar. ( Although this has also been widely disputed over the years with many reviewers and others claiming it is a modded Esotar. SF themselves have been VERY closed mouthed about this whole issue
.)Nonetheless, after a lot of research, i'm fairly certain it is a modded Esotec.
I do believe that a speaker should eventually be able to be integrated with a subwoofer (after much work and gnashing of teeth), but from listening to the boards, I also think that sensitivity to subwoofer discontinuities is a variable from listener to listener. Some are very sensitive, others not so much. I fall in the latter category, for which I am grateful. Since I do, maybe there are some audiophiles that can hear discontinuities in any subwoofer setup, I wouldn't know.
From people's descriptions of the LS50 sound, and fragments of hearing it through the haze of the internet, I would have thought that a very fast, tight, dry subwoofer like the REL would do the trick.
From people's descriptions of the LS50 sound, and fragments of hearing it through the haze of the internet, I would have thought that a very fast, tight, dry subwoofer like the REL would do the trick.
Thanks. It is the new Revel B110: http://www.revelspeakers.com/Products/Details/231Great post! Price on the Revel sub?
Check out the LFO (low frequency optimization) software there (runs on both Mac and Windows). It is really cool and best software I have seen for sub optimization.
Retail price is $2000.
Cool thanks.
But let's consider the possibility of an audiophile buying $1500 speaker and a $2000 sub.
IMO a foolish move since $3500 gets you into range where you can get a damn good integrated speaker.
I remember the SF from the 90's- it was a gorgeous looking speaker and an impressive listen; I imagine it probably ranks as a classic of its type. Just wondering whether you can claim to have fully compared the two speakers on a level playing field in this sense: I gather, perhaps mistakenly, that you had to use the Nordost cable for the KEF speaker to eliminate variables in your comparison. Though that may be sound scientific method, perhaps that cable, or even the amp choices, were not optimal for the KEF. I have found that the synergy of all components, including the wire, contributes to the overall result. Of course, changing other things, apart from the speakers, makes any comparison harder by far. And, I gather, given the little KEF's price point, perhaps the typical buyer wouldn't be spending crazy money on cables and amps to get to the best result. So, I'm not discounting what you heard, but question whether the 'isolating all variables' approach is a valid one for judging components, recognizing that this may lead to endless variables, chaos and, inevitable insanity. But, isn't that how we roll?
Not necessarily, Andre. It gives you the flexibility to locate the woofer in the room in a way that optimizes performance and avoid some room interactions, while positioning the mid-tweets for best imaging, soundstage and all that other 'stuff.' As to price balance between the two aspects, perhaps, but the idea of separating the woofs from the rest makes good sense.
I remember the SF from the 90's- it was a gorgeous looking speaker and an impressive listen; I imagine it probably ranks as a classic of its type. Just wondering whether you can claim to have fully compared the two speakers on a level playing field in this sense: I gather, perhaps mistakenly, that you had to use the Nordost cable for the KEF speaker to eliminate variables in your comparison. Though that may be sound scientific method, perhaps that cable, or even the amp choices, were not optimal for the KEF. I have found that the synergy of all components, including the wire, contributes to the overall result. Of course, changing other things, apart from the speakers, makes any comparison harder by far. And, I gather, given the little KEF's price point, perhaps the typical buyer wouldn't be spending crazy money on cables and amps to get to the best result. So, I'm not discounting what you heard, but question whether the 'isolating all variables' approach is a valid one for judging components, recognizing that this may lead to endless variables, chaos and, inevitable insanity. But, isn't that how we roll?
Hey Bill:
DaveyF and I both agreed that the least amount of variables the better. BTW, he was definitely having a bit of fun with the thread title. It was not so much a shoot out, but a fun
experiment to see what an reviewer/internet/show darling of a speaker could do against his reference.
So, yes, the Nordost cable was kept in so we could hear the difference that swapping out the speakers, and nothing else, was making.
BTW, his system is melt in your chair, drop dead gorgeous sounding. You would freak at his LP collection. I hope to go back and hear some
when the TT is ready,
I don't think it is likely. The idea of matching $1500 speakers with a $2000 sub is the same probability of matching them with $2000 speaker cables. What is the difference?
They both don't make sense to me
Ad maybe you agree????
"And, I gather, given the little KEF's price point, perhaps the typical buyer wouldn't be spending crazy money on cables and amps to get to the best result"
Does this not apply to a sub as well?
I do understand what you are saying about flexibility, but I have yet to encounter someone who spent more on their sub then satellites.
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