Shoot out at the OK corral!

[DaveyF]

Except for "slightly larger version,' you are coming very close to describing the KEF Blade. I do believe that one of the prime ingredients in the LS50 successful recipe is the very small, well designed and damped enclosure. I'm not so sure you can scale up the size of that enclosure and retain the magic.

The KEF Blade is far more pricey. I believe it comes in at $27K. What we are suggesting is an intermediate speaker...probably still made in China, that wouldn't be quite as big and certainly not as costly as the Blade. Your question about scaling up the cabinet is a good one...perhaps that is why KEF hasn't ventured there (yet).

 

[mep]

Everyone I have talked to who has heard both the Blade and the LS50s like the LS50s better.

 

[DaveyF]

Everyone I have talked to who has heard both the Blade and the LS50s like the LS50s better.

I have now heard both ( The Blade and the LS50's). Considering the price differential, I would state that the LS50's are a better speaker---for the money ( value wise). BUT, I cannot agree that overall the LS50's are better than the Blades! IMHO, the Blades are in a different league to the LS50's, as they should be for the money.

 

[mep]

I have now heard both ( The Blade and the LS50's). Considering the price differential, I would state that the LS50's are a better speaker---for the money ( value wise). BUT, I cannot agree that overall the LS50's are better than the Blades! IMHO, the Blades are in a different league to the LS50's, as they should be for the money.

I understand what you are saying. I haven't heard the Blades so I can't compare the two. Common sense and lots of dollars tells you the Blades should be much superior. However, the uniQ drivers are only slightly bigger than the one in the LS50 and it's mounted on a giant slab of baffle in order to accommodate the side firing woofers.

With regards to your earlier comment about the typical LS50 user and the quality of subs they may buy, I get that too. I know my setup is not typical for what they would typically be used with.

 

[Andre Marc]

If they sounded strained, you either had the volume up way too loud or your amp doesn't have enough grunt.




Big surprise. I have been trying to tell you guys that for months and all I got in return was negativity.




Would this be the part where Andre is supposed to tell us how wonderful your GH's sound, specially compared to the LS50s?

1) I don't agree with Davey 100% that the KEFs sounded strained. They were clearly working harder than the SFs but not by much.
I mentioned to Davey that at the shows they were being pushed much harder to the point it looked like the driver was going to pop out of the
speaker, and the KEF reps were not the least bit concerned.

2) The SPLs were NO where near uncomfortable. We could have pressurized the room by at at least another 30%. The Rowland amp
was simply one of the least mechanical and beautiful sounding SS amps I have heard in a long time. It barely broke a sweat.

3) Not sure what you are insinuating. The SFs are simply in another class. No bad reflection on the KEFs, they are simply
speaker that push the limit of what is possible in their price range.

 

[Andre Marc]

Let me say that DaveyF's system was one of the most luxurious and enjoyable systems I have had the pleasure of hearing recently. Great sounding, small listening room.
Superb synergy between components. My only regret was not getting to hear some of the very rare vinyl in the collection!

One clarification..the speaker cable I brought over was from the British company QED.

We also spun Miles Davis's sublime Seven Steps To Heaven, Columbia Legacy remaster. The first track, "Basin Street Blues" is simply ravishing.

I brought over the out of this world 2013 Steven Wilson remix/remaster of Jethro Tull's classic Benefit.

DaveyF has a gorgeous house and he is a lucky man to enjoy such a system on a daily basis.

 

[mep]

1) I don't agree with Davey 100% that the KEFs sounded strained. They were clearly working harder than the SFs but not by much.
I mentioned to Davey that at the shows they were being pushed much harder to the point it looked like the driver was going to pop out of the
speaker, and the KEF reps were not the least bit concerned.

2) The SPLs were NO where near uncomfortable. We could have pressurized the room by at at least another 30%. The Rowland amp
was simply one of the least mechanical and beautiful sounding SS amps I have heard in a long time. It barely broke a sweat.

3) Not sure what you are insinuating. The SFs are simply in another class. No bad reflection on the KEFs, they are simply
speaker that push the limit of what is possible in their price range.

Andre-It was sort of a joke. It was obvious to me that Davey felt his GH were in another class compared to the LS50s and Davey was waiting for you to jump in and say how much better the GH's sound in comparison. I think the LS50s push way beyond what is possible in their price range and several others on top of theirs.

 

[Andre Marc]

Davey-I have never heard your speakers and therefore I have no idea what they sound like. I could be wrong, but I thought the earlier SF speakers were anything but neutral devices and they were voiced to be warm and romantic sounding. If that is true and one gets used to that type of presentation, speakers that suffer no such colorations will not sound as good to your ears unless you recalibrate your internal standards for what is truly more neutral and accurate to the source. The real truth could be that your SF speakers are just superior sounding speakers compared to the LS50s. I honestly don't know.

If you have hear the GH's, please don't presume anything. I assure you these do not deviate from neutrality in any significant way. As I said, the two speakers are in a different class.

 

[Andre Marc]

I've been under the impression that Andre prefers not to use subs with his Kef LS50's

I'm not a fan of subs..but after hearing DaveyF's REL with the LS50 I softened my position a bit. However, one would have to spend at
least $1000 on a sub that could match the LS50's for precision and speed. Then at $2500, I have many other speaker choices, including the KEF R500.

 

[Andre Marc]

He never tried them with a sub Steve. Andre is not a fan of subs. He thinks they are too much work to setup correctly and that they will still never blend with the main speakers.

That is correct. However, let it be said, that is MY own personal view. I know for sure there are many folks who have blended subs with the KEF and are quite happy.

 

[mep]

If you have hear the GH's, please don't presume anything. I assure you these do not deviate from neutrality in any significant way. As I said, the two speakers are in a different class.

Andre-I said earlier that I have never heard the SF GH speakers and therefore have no idea how they sound. I know the woofer was made by Scanspeak and the tweeter is a Dynaudio Estotar. I'm a big fan of both of those companies and I trust that SF integrated them correctly in their beautiful enclosures.

 

[Andre Marc]

I'd be interested in hearing what Andre thought of listening with the sub

Steve, it did add heft, and bottom weight to the presentation. REL makes excellent subs, even at entry level.
However, I was still able to localize the sub. But as DaveyF said, we did not calibrate it with the KEFs, as he had
it dialed in for his SFs, which took him a month!

 

[Andre Marc]

Guys, this review is in NO WAY meant to demean the LS50's. I believe and I did say this, that the LS50's are an impressive speaker. They are an amazing deal at their asking price. I would NOT hesitate for a second to highly recommend them to any one asking about speakers in the $3-5K range. However, the question really is...and I believe Andre and I are on the same page with this...is it likely that a typical user is going to spring good money for an appropriate sub given the pricing platform of the LS50. I do NOT think that is likely. Simply by adding an inexpensive and atypical HT sub would NOT be beneficial given the quality of these speakers. Then you have to take the time and effort to match the sub to the mains, which again, I suspect for the "typical" user isn't going to be be something that a) they want to do and b) they have the experience necessary to do.
As Mark correctly points out, the GH's were a FAR more pricey speaker in their day...so IMO to expect a LOT more from them is to be expected.
KEF has a winner on their hands....no doubt, BUT..I think that this winner has to be taken into context. As Andre was suggesting, a slightly larger version of the LS50 with the same mid/tweet driver and in a larger cabinet with a large bass driver with the same technology as applied to the LS50 would be another winner. Perhaps, this is next for KEF....If so, it could be a very STRONG contender in the sub $20K level, IMHO.

+!!!!!

Both Davey and I agree the KEFs ONLY suffered by COMPARISON. Other than that they were astonishing yesterday on many levels..piano sound was simply marvelous..so were
strings....

 

[Andre Marc]

Except for "slightly larger version,' you are coming very close to describing the KEF Blade. I do believe that one of the prime ingredients in the LS50 successful recipe is the very small, well designed and damped enclosure. I'm not so sure you can scale up the size of that enclosure and retain the magic.

They did...with the Blade.

 

[Andre Marc]

Everyone I have talked to who has heard both the Blade and the LS50s like the LS50s better.

I can't imagine that. I have heard both extensively. Jeff Dorgay of Tone owns both. It is simply no contest.

 

[Andre Marc]

Andre-It was sort of a joke. It was obvious to me that Davey felt his GH were in another class compared to the LS50s and Davey was waiting for you to jump in and say how much better the GH's sound in comparison. I think the LS50s push way beyond what is possible in their price range and several others on top of theirs.

FYI..the SFs are "better" in some key areas, but rest assured, the KEFs were not humiliated. You can buy 7 or 8 pairs of the LS50 for one GH.

 

[DaveyF]

FYI..the SFs are "better" in some key areas, but rest assured, the KEFs were not humiliated. You can buy 7 or 8 pairs of the LS50 for one GH.

+1

 

[Andre Marc]

I should also mention that DaveyF also suggested that his Nordost Frey speaker cables were possibly not the best
match for the LS50s. I don't have a lot of experience with Nordost but he says the tend to favor quick transients and
can sound thin on the incorrectly matched speaker. He maybe right, but tough to say for sure.

 

[mep]

I should also mention that DaveyF also suggested that his Nordost Frey speaker cables were possibly not the best
match for the LS50s. I don't have a lot of experience with Nordost but he says the tend to favor quick transients and
can sound thin on the incorrectly matched speaker. He maybe right, but tough to say for sure.

Um, I'm pretty sure the LS50s have quick transients.

 

[Andre Marc]

Um, I'm pretty sure the LS50s have quick transients.

Uh...I was trying to say that he felt a "lean and mean" cable may not be a good match to the LS50.