Sonic Artistry is the Best. The only place worth shopping for high end audio in the GTA.@JEB42 thanks for the info. Great lineup, the Toronto area surely benefits from such a great analog resource
New OMA turntable
- Thread starter djsina2
- Start date
Yup, watched those. OMA videos always make me chuckle… at least he didn’t claim to have invented iron casting.
Among several ridiculously false assertions in the latest OMA video, he mentions that "all vacuum hold down have a soft rubber material between the record and the platter". Is that true?
most vacuum hold downs have a flexible rubber membrane integrated into the platter edge to hold the vacuum in. might also have a small rubber disc at the spindle to hold the vacuum. to say it's between the platter and the pressing is not wrong or right, it's touching the edge (and label) and each design would likely do it slightly differently. it's part of the platter<->pressing contact equation. the much larger issue is the possible 'over-damping' of the pressing by the vacuum effect. again, which will vary from design to design.
i owned vacuum hold down for 10 years (Rockport Sirius II SE for 2 years, Sirius III for 8 years) and never heard the over-damping issue as part of what i was hearing. but maybe if i heard the same design without vacuum i might have....don't know. it's a fair question.
it's hard to isolate design aspects unless you can A/B things with and without. which is seldom a choice. there are tt's where you can choose vacuum or even swap it in and out. maybe someone with one of those can chime in.
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Zeotrope. I am fully cognizant that replying, as I'm about to do is opening pandoras box, but I cannot let things be.....
You said..
"Among several ridiculously false assertions in the latest OMA video, he mentions that "all vacuum hold down have a soft rubber material between the record and the platter". Is that true?"
You state that this assertion is ridiculously false and then ask "is that true? hmmm. I know of no domestic TT with vac hold down that does NOT have a rubber, or similar material, circumferential seal between the platter and the records edge and as Mike points out, there will be another soft seal either at the label diameter or over the spindle. If in fact you are aware of a model that does not have these seals, please educate me.
Cutting lathes, which don't have soft seals, are a different category and do not apply here.
Note, I do not have a problem with vac hold down, my issue is with the necessity of a soft seal touching the record. The coloration this causes, once it is observed, cannot be ignored.
It is clear that you have an aversion to things OMA, a pity, but of course you are free to your opinions. It is also clear that you like Nagra gear, their TT is indeed an interesting design. Your comments on the Nagra TT thread re speed sampling rate and the implied inability of my design to respond to speed changes in a timely manner is disingenuous. I am on record in these and other fora as advocating the need for a TT to hold a stable speed under dynamic conditions. i.e., playing a record. Given my clear publicly posted views on this subject, do you really believe that I would design a TT with a power supply that could not meet the most demanding peak current draw, in real time, with a substantial reserve?
I await your post enunciating the other "ridiculously false assertions" I made. I'm happy to openly debate them with you here.......
Cheers,
You said..
"Among several ridiculously false assertions in the latest OMA video, he mentions that "all vacuum hold down have a soft rubber material between the record and the platter". Is that true?"
You state that this assertion is ridiculously false and then ask "is that true? hmmm. I know of no domestic TT with vac hold down that does NOT have a rubber, or similar material, circumferential seal between the platter and the records edge and as Mike points out, there will be another soft seal either at the label diameter or over the spindle. If in fact you are aware of a model that does not have these seals, please educate me.
Cutting lathes, which don't have soft seals, are a different category and do not apply here.
Note, I do not have a problem with vac hold down, my issue is with the necessity of a soft seal touching the record. The coloration this causes, once it is observed, cannot be ignored.
It is clear that you have an aversion to things OMA, a pity, but of course you are free to your opinions. It is also clear that you like Nagra gear, their TT is indeed an interesting design. Your comments on the Nagra TT thread re speed sampling rate and the implied inability of my design to respond to speed changes in a timely manner is disingenuous. I am on record in these and other fora as advocating the need for a TT to hold a stable speed under dynamic conditions. i.e., playing a record. Given my clear publicly posted views on this subject, do you really believe that I would design a TT with a power supply that could not meet the most demanding peak current draw, in real time, with a substantial reserve?
I await your post enunciating the other "ridiculously false assertions" I made. I'm happy to openly debate them with you here.......
Cheers,
Richard, good to connect.
Normally, I would love a debate; but in this case I don’t think it will be useful for either of us. My issue with OMA is related to your boss, Jonathan. I abhor him. The K3 may be the best TT in the world and I would not have it in my home if it were free.
I think your questions are best directed inward, towards Weiss. He speaks in absolutes and portrays any other tech that is not employed in OMA products as ‘garbage’. I’m referring to his views on non direct drive turntables, vacuum hold-down, non horn-driven speakers, among other examples.
Re: vacuum hold-down - are you suggesting that the Air Force Zero sounds inferior to the K3 because it has soft rubber seals around the record edge or on the platter? That’s the very clear assertion made by Jonathan.
I actually did not start by having an aversion to OMA - I was ready to purchase an integrated amp and speakers - until Jonathan rudely asked me to never return because I was ‘asking too many questions’. What was the question I was so guilty of demanding an answer to? How a ~90dB sensitive speaker can be adequately driven by a 1.5W amp. Of course it cannot be, yet he found that extremely offensive and didn‘t want to even discuss it. At the time, ”audiophiles were not OMA customers”, according to Weiss. I guess times have changed, since positive opinions of OMA products on public forums seems to be very much something that OMA is now craving.
As things turned out, Weiss kicking me out led me to design my own horns, with modern drivers and the RCA 1443 and Bill Woods’ supplied conical horns. I ended up spending well into the 6-figures — a shame for OMA, as that could have led to a very nice OMA system.
You seem like a good guy. I could sense you were trying to diminish Weiss’ platitudes and be a bit more diplomatic during your joint presentation on the K5 in Munich.
Speaking of the K5, according to the Tracking Angle review, it simply couldn’t deliver any high frequencies. Perhaps you can elaborate?
“Unfortunately, I could not appreciate its sound quality because the demo system had no top end at all.”
trackingangle.com
Normally, I would love a debate; but in this case I don’t think it will be useful for either of us. My issue with OMA is related to your boss, Jonathan. I abhor him. The K3 may be the best TT in the world and I would not have it in my home if it were free.
I think your questions are best directed inward, towards Weiss. He speaks in absolutes and portrays any other tech that is not employed in OMA products as ‘garbage’. I’m referring to his views on non direct drive turntables, vacuum hold-down, non horn-driven speakers, among other examples.
Re: vacuum hold-down - are you suggesting that the Air Force Zero sounds inferior to the K3 because it has soft rubber seals around the record edge or on the platter? That’s the very clear assertion made by Jonathan.
I actually did not start by having an aversion to OMA - I was ready to purchase an integrated amp and speakers - until Jonathan rudely asked me to never return because I was ‘asking too many questions’. What was the question I was so guilty of demanding an answer to? How a ~90dB sensitive speaker can be adequately driven by a 1.5W amp. Of course it cannot be, yet he found that extremely offensive and didn‘t want to even discuss it. At the time, ”audiophiles were not OMA customers”, according to Weiss. I guess times have changed, since positive opinions of OMA products on public forums seems to be very much something that OMA is now craving.
As things turned out, Weiss kicking me out led me to design my own horns, with modern drivers and the RCA 1443 and Bill Woods’ supplied conical horns. I ended up spending well into the 6-figures — a shame for OMA, as that could have led to a very nice OMA system.
You seem like a good guy. I could sense you were trying to diminish Weiss’ platitudes and be a bit more diplomatic during your joint presentation on the K5 in Munich.
Speaking of the K5, according to the Tracking Angle review, it simply couldn’t deliver any high frequencies. Perhaps you can elaborate?
“Unfortunately, I could not appreciate its sound quality because the demo system had no top end at all.”
Munich High End 2023 Wrap Up and Alternative View
TrackingAngle hired a local to cover some of the show
trackingangle.com
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Speaking of the K5, according to the Tracking Angle review, it simply couldn’t deliver any high frequencies. Perhaps you can elaborate?
“Unfortunately, I could not appreciate its sound quality because the demo system had no top end at all.”
Munich High End 2023 Wrap Up and Alternative View
TrackingAngle hired a local to cover some of the show
Yeah, that description isn't related to the turntable, but the system.
The OMA room was a departure of the piercing hifi sound heard in many other rooms for sure. Wish I could have spent more time there.
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