More Consensus That Streaming Is An Inferior Format & Not High End?

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Rensselaer

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As long as it is centered on audio subjects, no problem. But I am much less happy when people try to turn audio debates in the field of personnel insults and personnel fights.



Please keep the arguments separate - do not mix them. Most of us have maturity enough to know that a proficient vinyl based audiophile can have a system that has no noise, clicks and pops. But we also know that most vinyl users have a poor aligned cartridge and plenty of clicks and pops. Just read the strong opinions of our vinyl experts about the performance of vinyl systems in shows and shops, or even on M. Fremer 82º SRA ... ;)

The comment on nostalgia and repetition stands, however.



Yes we can claim it. IMHO even more with digital than with vinyl. But we benefit form a quality high resolution system to get all the information the system can supply in an enjoyable way.



Carlos does a lot more than that if I remember well. You are downsizing his work - I hope he can come to defend himself . And yes, as a consequence now digital becomes a "limited source".



First connecting streaming with headphone listening to prepare the battle field. No one here is addressing headphones. Next a bitter view of a poor quality stereo sound. Not new., we can find tens of similar narratives in analogue when audiophiles compare tubes with solid state.



Should we assume they also listen with headphones? It seems not ...


View attachment 102850
Listening to streaming with headphones at work is an advantage, not a detriment. A portable digital system is the winner because the only portable analogue system that might compete would be a portable cassette player, which I do not believe are still available commercially.
 

NC Lee

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Oct 23, 2014
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The big problem with streaming is buffering obvious I know - but being at the end of my road and despite various guarantees I still encounter the wheel of death regularly. During music highly annoying. It may be better that I download music but I had in my mind the logic of streaming to hear it first before buying on vinyl. If I download I am paying more for no real reason
Comment withdrawn.
 

Ron Resnick

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Wow...everyone seems really aggressive on this forum,

Welcome to WBF, DMcVey!

It’s not the forum — it’s just this thread.
 

Ron Resnick

Site Co-Owner, Administrator
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If you want to listen to new artists, you need to have a competent streaming system. All of this music is recorded on digital anyway.

+1
 

Kingrex

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Feb 3, 2019
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I have been working on a project of evaluating different wires for branch circuit use. Stranded, solid, Romex, large gauge, grain oriented. In performing some final test today I was searching the source to use. I pulled up digital as I always do. Streaming Ich Dich Liebe by Pink Martini. I then got a bug to put my vinyl version on. The vinyl was so much more superior. I was sort of surprised. Sure the source files could be totally different. I then put on another record by the same band. Same perceived playback. My vinyl is way better than my digital.

My digital is just fine to listen too. I don't think I would really have been drawn to notice the differences if I had not been actively listening. At the moment my mind was in a place where it was very engaged and intent to hear into the music and compare/contrast what it was hearing. This is a different frame of mind than just kicking back and listening. As I am wiring this I stood up and wandered back into the listening room and was very engaged by the digital version that was streaming at the moment. There is noting wrong with it. Its quite beautiful. But the vinyl is quite a bit better when you put focus to what all is going on.

Would I say the digital streaming is not High End. Hell no. I would just say my vinyl is better than my digital streaming.
I have about $16K invested in digital with an emphasis to quality power at the modem, router, switch.
I have about $17K invested in the vinyl with a decent cartridge that has been analyzed and set up properly.
 

christoph

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Dec 11, 2015
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Welcome to WBF, DMcVey!

It’s not the forum — it’s just this thread.
I'm active in dozens of forums about dozens of different topics and WBF is by VEEEEERYYY FAAAAAR the friendliest and least hostile forum I know.
 

Loheswaran

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Dec 19, 2014
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I have been working on a project of evaluating different wires for branch circuit use. Stranded, solid, Romex, large gauge, grain oriented. In performing some final test today I was searching the source to use. I pulled up digital as I always do. Streaming Ich Dich Liebe by Pink Martini. I then got a bug to put my vinyl version on. The vinyl was so much more superior. I was sort of surprised. Sure the source files could be totally different. I then put on another record by the same band. Same perceived playback. My vinyl is way better than my digital.

My digital is just fine to listen too. I don't think I would really have been drawn to notice the differences if I had not been actively listening. At the moment my mind was in a place where it was very engaged and intent to hear into the music and compare/contrast what it was hearing. This is a different frame of mind than just kicking back and listening. As I am wiring this I stood up and wandered back into the listening room and was very engaged by the digital version that was streaming at the moment. There is noting wrong with it. Its quite beautiful. But the vinyl is quite a bit better when you put focus to what all is going on.

Would I say the digital streaming is not High End. Hell no. I would just say my vinyl is better than my digital streaming.
I have about $16K invested in digital with an emphasis to quality power at the modem, router, switch.
I have about $17K invested in the vinyl with a decent cartridge that has been analyzed and set up properly.
Can i just ask if your hardware is at risk of becoming obsolete, or can it be regularly updated with new Firmware and Software?

I only ask because the technology is moving pretty quickly and. a large investment may be quite risky - my digital front end is theree for the music i cannot get on vinyl - or for checking out albums on stream
 

tima

Industry Expert
Mar 3, 2014
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The sad part is people in their 30's like you are the ones we need to attract.

Looks like you and perhaps others have been misled by McVey's reference to audiophiles in their 30s and his claiming that WBF may be the "wrong place" for them. At least based on his own self-description::

DMcVey Age.jpg


Wow...everyone seems really aggressive on this forum, I'm new here but I'll stiffen up my spine and see if I can participate at this level. The majority of the people here also seem to be boomers, and are happy listening to their legacy record collections from the 1980's. Quite simply put, this might just be in the wrong place for an audiophile in their 30's.

"the years 1973 through 2018 saw nearly $29 billion in new vinyl sales." This is of course a misleading statement. New vinyl doesn't mean new artists, it just means newly pressed. Go onto Elusive Disk or Music Direct and 90% of the "new records" are reissues of analog recordings from the 50's - 80's.

If you want to listen to new artists, you need to have a competent streaming system. All of this music is recorded on digital anyway.

"Wow...everyone seems really aggressive on this forum, I'm new here but I'll stiffen up my spine and see if I can participate at this level."

From newbie to victim in three days?

You may have been misled but the statement about new vinyl sales is true as written. Check with the RIAA. If you believe there were few new artists released in 45 years through some format other than streaming , I can't help you.

Yes, you are new here -- perhaps too new to be telling us about "everyone" and "the majority of people here", "what you need", and what are our listening habits. Perhaps better to talk about your own experiences so others get to know you.
 

ddk

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May 18, 2013
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Looks like you and perhaps others have been misled by McVey's reference to audiophiles in their 30s and his claiming that WBF may be the "wrong place" for them. At least based on his own self-description::

View attachment 102860




"Wow...everyone seems really aggressive on this forum, I'm new here but I'll stiffen up my spine and see if I can participate at this level."

From newbie to victim in three days?

You may have been misled but the statement about new vinyl sales is true as written. Check with the RIAA. If you believe there were few new artists released in 45 years through some format other than streaming , I can't help you.

Yes, you are new here -- perhaps too new to be telling us about "everyone" and "the majority of people here", "what you need", and what are our listening habits. Perhaps better to talk about your own experiences so others get to know you.
I stopped interacting with him when he kept changing his story about vinyl. First he says he wants to get more into vinyl but prices on discogs and ebay are too high, this is usually for people looking for older records not new ones. After I point him towards other sources he says he want's new releases but there aren't any which is rubbish. Then he starts complaining about the forum and people being aggressive which no one has been on this thread. Bottom line he's not on the up and up!

david
 
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Kingrex

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Feb 3, 2019
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Can i just ask if your hardware is at risk of becoming obsolete, or can it be regularly updated with new Firmware and Software?

I only ask because the technology is moving pretty quickly and. a large investment may be quite risky - my digital front end is theree for the music i cannot get on vinyl - or for checking out albums on stream
My DAC is 2 generations back now.

Software seems to be a critical area where upgrades happen continually. And they are very important. Critically important. Having said that I have never seen a software update for my DAC. I went through a few updates with my server. Mojo Audio does not make servers anymore. They have a 3rd party server on their site.

I am confounded about what makes a server tick at the moment. I interact with The Audiophile Junkie on a WhatsApp group. He seems to know a lot about servers and power supplies and has some pretty compelling arguments to sway me towards trying one of his computers if my server fails. One advantage is he has some pretty serious DSP software integrated that allow a huge amount of control over the signal to help timing, phase, EQ, gain and biamping if you want. Why not have that capability on my digital. I see no reason not to have the flexibility if I want to engage it.

I don't want hardware updates that constantly ask me to invest additional $$$$$ to be up to date. Thats expensive.
 

Tango

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Mar 12, 2017
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But I am much less happy when people try to turn audio debates in the field of personnel insults and personnel fights.
Please be happy. Think of this as "Man crush" intense infatuation for you Micro. ;) Opposite attracts. Charming personals do have fans. Bonzo is the biggest fan of you. I am fan of you too. Often the so-called audio debates here are not really audio debates. Some of us just like to debate, enjoy debating and only use audio as the a subject leading to that.

Greeting from Far East.
Tang
 

microstrip

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May 30, 2010
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Please be happy. Think of this as "Man crush" intense infatuation for you Micro. ;) Opposite attracts. Charming personals do have fans. Bonzo is the biggest fan of you. I am fan of you too. Often the so-called audio debates here are not really audio debates. Some of us just like to debate, enjoy debating and only use audio as the a subject leading to that.

Greeting from Far East.
Tang

Thanks, dear Tango. I enjoy debates and debating - I did it all the time in my professional life, not so much now - but my main interest is just researching stereo sound reproduction. It transcends the current audio knowledge, but does not deny it.
 

bryans

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Dec 26, 2017
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Looks like you and perhaps others have been misled by McVey's reference to audiophiles in their 30s and his claiming that WBF may be the "wrong place" for them. At least based on his own self-description::
He can claim that WBF is the wrong place for him regardless of his age. I actually know a couple of people who feel the same way and have left WBF. It happens.
 

DMcVey

Member
Jan 9, 2023
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Looks like you and perhaps others have been misled by McVey's reference to audiophiles in their 30s and his claiming that WBF may be the "wrong place" for them. At least based on his own self-description::

View attachment 102860




"Wow...everyone seems really aggressive on this forum, I'm new here but I'll stiffen up my spine and see if I can participate at this level."

From newbie to victim in three days?

You may have been misled but the statement about new vinyl sales is true as written. Check with the RIAA. If you believe there were few new artists released in 45 years through some format other than streaming , I can't help you.

Yes, you are new here -- perhaps too new to be telling us about "everyone" and "the majority of people here", "what you need", and what are our listening habits. Perhaps better to talk about your own experiences so others get to know you.
I hit the wrong drop down when I signed up for the forum. I was born in 1984 and not 1974, I'll fix that. I followed this forum for a long time but never registered. There was a post a few weeks ago pushing the followers to register, so I did. Probably a mistake.

I find it extremely interesting that you didn't respond to me comments, but spent time looking a my profile and my bonafides. Is it because my comments really hit home? Probably so.

You're super aggressive and should understand that this is a HOBBY. People approach hobbies differently and it should be fun, it's not a matter of life or death. Good luck Tima.
 
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DMcVey

Member
Jan 9, 2023
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I stopped interacting with him when he kept changed his story about vinyl. First he says he wants to get more into vinyl but prices on discogs and ebay are too high, this is usually for people looking for older records not new ones. After I point him towards other sources he says he want's new releases but there aren't any which is rubbish. Then he starts complaining about the forum and people being aggressive which no one has been on this thread. Bottom line he's not on the up and up!

david
Hi,
I think I was consistent saying that vinyl is really expensive and that building a collection is beyond my means. I have a entry level turntable but I've invested in a robust streaming system.

Cheers.
 

XV-1

Well-Known Member
May 24, 2010
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I hit the wrong drop down when I signed up for the forum. I was born in 1984 and not 1974, I'll fix that. I followed this forum for a long time but never registered. There was a post a few weeks ago pushing the followers to register, so I did. Probably a mistake.

I find it extremely interesting that you didn't respond to me comments, but spent time looking a my profile and my bonafides. Is it because my comments really hit home? Probably so.

You're super aggressive and should understand that this is a HOBBY. People approach hobbies differently and it should be fun, it's not a matter of life or death. Good luck Tima.

LOL. Tim is one of the least aggressive let's make peace guys you wil ever meet.

Especially compared to opinionated diks like myself, Microstrip, Bonzo, mini ddk(Peter) , DDK and alike ;)
 
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bonzo75

Member Sponsor
Feb 26, 2014
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Yes, fortunately fluttering in the wind illogical arguments does not make them true.

Bob Dylan has penned a new song sung by Joan Baez,


Yes, and how many times must we read the same thing
And how many ears must an audiophile have
To hear his system makes people cry?
And how many posts will it take till micro knows
And how many times will you turn your head and pretend that you cannot see

the answer is fluttering in the wind
 

bonzo75

Member Sponsor
Feb 26, 2014
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