Magico Subwoofers

adyc

VIP/Donor
Jan 6, 2013
351
1
18
#21
One thing I don't understand why REL has phase angle of 0 and180. One needs continuous range of phase angle to have proper integration. Any REL owners care to comment?
 

RBFC

WBF Founding Member & Super Moderator
Apr 20, 2010
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Albuquerque, NM
www.fightingconcepts.com
#23
Has anyone addressed the issue of possible "preamp" sections of subwoofers with line-level inputs being inadequate? Are any of these modifiable/upgradable to achieve better results? With the speaker-level inputs providing better results in some designs, does it not make sense that line-level input inadequacies are the reason for the problems?

Lee
 

Ron Resnick

Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Jan 25, 2015
5,075
30
48
Beverly Hills, CA
#24
I was told today that the Q-Sub subwoofers have only line level inputs.
 
Jan 23, 2011
3,857
0
0
Amsterdam holland
#25
One thing I don't understand why REL has phase angle of 0 and180. One needs continuous range of phase angle to have proper integration. Any REL owners care to comment?
Absolutely right ,i wonder how you get such a sub Working correctly, with Lets say a first order x over speaker which has a 90 degrees phaseshift.
So its merely guess work imo with most speakers as a lot dont state x over design/phase shift, case of finetuning by ear.
If it sounds louder its in phase if not it cancels/dulls out
 
Last edited:

Elberoth

Member Sponsor
Dec 16, 2012
1,860
17
38
Poland
#26
One thing I don't understand why REL has phase angle of 0 and180. One needs continuous range of phase angle to have proper integration. Any REL owners care to comment?
This may be the reason in some cases REL subs sound better via their high level inputs - not enough adjustability.

I'm actually quite surprised that in this day and age REL does not offer sdvanced DSP engine with their subs.
 
#27
I would only use speaker level if I had no alternative (and yes I have done so in the past). But it sounds like another religious debate...

On topic, Rythmik offers models with speaker-level inputs, and I like mine as well or better than several other much higher-priced subs I auditioned a few years again (B&W, JL, Paradigm, Velodyne, etc. -- but not a REL; I heard one but not long enough to comment, and unless they are extremely good or very bad I find them harder to compare than regular speakers).
Don,...thanks for noting Rythmik; I was not aware of their subs. What Velodyne model did you audition back then, the DD18+ by any chance? What Rythmik model do you have, the large ported or sealed design? What size? BTW...nice looking horn in your Avatar,...Bach Strad B-flat or other? Thanks!
 
#28
I was told today that the Q-Sub subwoofers have only line level inputs.
Ron,

I found the same things,...the Q-Sub looks like a beast; I found notations that it requires an active crossover/other processor that Magico supplies. Does this tie with what you found.
Surprisingly, there is not a lot of detail out there at all, very little mention of performance specs, etc....
 

DonH50

Member Sponsor & WBF Technical Expert
Jun 23, 2010
3,527
3
38
Monument, CO
#29
Hi,

I heard the DD18+ but not for long; I focused on the 15" models as those are what would (sort-of) fit my space. I also auditioned several nice-sounding Paradigm models, and briefly a couple of JL, but with limited listening before and after getting my Rythmiks decided the Rythmik subs offered comparable performance for much less money (though not built-in DSP -- they do have continuous phase control and I was using the single-band PEQ). I was just getting back into it, had kids in college, and was suffering from shock at how prices how escalated. None of the subs in that class really sounded "bad" to me, though I felt the B&W's at that time (about 5-7 years ago) were not up to the others (B&W has since revamped their sub line). I have never heard a REL so cannot comment on them (or Magico, natch). Brian Ding, the man behind Rythmik, and I have similar day jobs and his patent is similar to my first servo design (should've patented mine!) so we hit off personally as well. Like my old design (ca. 1980), Brian uses feedback from the voice coil instead of an accelerometer-based design, and we both feel it is superior since it can compensate a few things accelerometers cannot (at least not easily if at all). And it saved me a few grand... I participate in WBF as a hairy-knuckled engineer for fun and fellowship, have no hope of ever affording the type of gear most of y'all have, so getting equal performance for less mooney was a Good Thing.

I went with sealed 12" models, the F12, starting with a pair and picking up another pair fairly recently. My room is not large and has some vexing modes so the little quartet allowed my to flatten the response and take advantage of some serious room gain so the overall response is about -3 dB at 7 Hz (!) Lucky for me... The ported subs sound very similar to the sealed and in a larger room I would probably go that way. In my case, Brian felt the sealed design would sound and integrate with my Maggies a hair better, plus I needed their smaller size.

Thanks for the kind words on the horn! It is a custom designed by Flip Oakes that he named "Wild Thing". It is built by Kanstul. Compared to my old Bach Strad it is much more open and has a much larger bell that projects broadly and yet plays up high much easier. I have a stable of horns, mostly Kanstul and many designed by Flip, that I piddle with. I was playing in several bands around the area until work took over life (blah). Now I play some in church and kept my orchestra gig (wife said I couldn't give it up after all the money I spent on horns ;) ). See www.pikespeakphil.org -- I am still listed on a few other sites but haven't really been playing with them the past few years (too many 80+ hour workweeks), and have pretty much given up taking professional gigs as I don't want to embarass myself (trying to kep my rep good whilst I can). My wife plays piano/organ/keyboards so we play together at times, and we both participated in a local community Christmas cantata that was a lot of fun (lots of screaming high notes and jazzy stuff for me).

Probably more than anyone wanted to know...

HTH - Don
 
#30
Hi,

I heard the DD18+ but not for long; I focused on the 15" models as those are what would (sort-of) fit my space. I also auditioned several nice-sounding Paradigm models, and briefly a couple of JL, but with limited listening before and after getting my Rythmiks decided the Rythmik subs offered comparable performance for much less money (though not built-in DSP -- they do have continuous phase control and I was using the single-band PEQ). I was just getting back into it, had kids in college, and was suffering from shock at how prices how escalated. None of the subs in that class really sounded "bad" to me, though I felt the B&W's at that time (about 5-7 years ago) were not up to the others (B&W has since revamped their sub line). I have never heard a REL so cannot comment on them (or Magico, natch). Brian Ding, the man behind Rythmik, and I have similar day jobs and his patent is similar to my first servo design (should've patented mine!) so we hit off personally as well. Like my old design (ca. 1980), Brian uses feedback from the voice coil instead of an accelerometer-based design, and we both feel it is superior since it can compensate a few things accelerometers cannot (at least not easily if at all). And it saved me a few grand... I participate in WBF as a hairy-knuckled engineer for fun and fellowship, have no hope of ever affording the type of gear most of y'all have, so getting equal performance for less mooney was a Good Thing.

I went with sealed 12" models, the F12, starting with a pair and picking up another pair fairly recently. My room is not large and has some vexing modes so the little quartet allowed my to flatten the response and take advantage of some serious room gain so the overall response is about -3 dB at 7 Hz (!) Lucky for me... The ported subs sound very similar to the sealed and in a larger room I would probably go that way. In my case, Brian felt the sealed design would sound and integrate with my Maggies a hair better, plus I needed their smaller size.

Thanks for the kind words on the horn! It is a custom designed by Flip Oakes that he named "Wild Thing". It is built by Kanstul. Compared to my old Bach Strad it is much more open and has a much larger bell that projects broadly and yet plays up high much easier. I have a stable of horns, mostly Kanstul and many designed by Flip, that I piddle with. I was playing in several bands around the area until work took over life (blah). Now I play some in church and kept my orchestra gig (wife said I couldn't give it up after all the money I spent on horns ;) ). See www.pikespeakphil.org -- I am still listed on a few other sites but haven't really been playing with them the past few years (too many 80+ hour workweeks), and have pretty much given up taking professional gigs as I don't want to embarass myself (trying to kep my rep good whilst I can). My wife plays piano/organ/keyboards so we play together at times, and we both participated in a local community Christmas cantata that was a lot of fun (lots of screaming high notes and jazzy stuff for me).

Probably more than anyone wanted to know...

HTH - Don
Don,

Thank you for all the great information...-3db at 7Hz,...OMG!!! You are all set as they say. I'll need to check them out; over-paying for something that has SOTA performance just to get a name is not my style though I do have some upper-priced gear but only because it was the best-sounding to my ears. The Rythmiks seem to be a breath of fresh air in a (getting) drastically over-priced subwoofer market; rumor has it also that Legacy is about to bring out a new performance-shattering sub without a vicious price tag to compete with the big names so I have 2 to research. WAF won't allow for 2, 3, 4 or six-pack of subwoofers like some of you have so I have to find the model that will be 'one and done' :cool:! I've always had a warm spot for Maggies, the 3.x and 20x in particular but have always wound up with traditional driver-based speakers due to the majority of the music I listen to. Those subs must round them out properly though with that low frequency behavior in room,....would love to hear what such a system is capable of!

Beautiful horn.....I had a .468 gold-plated 1978 Benge that had a similar look at a distance though it was gold-plated; still miss that horn after all these years. I picked up a Bach Strad B-flat 3 years ago; they are much improved over many years ago when their B-flat and C horns (to me) sounded compressed and non-emotional (which led me to the Benge and other horns). I still think that Flip's Wild Thing or another Kantsul or a Monette will be more my style if I can get the chops back to what they were 32+ years ago but hey, that only takes TIME away from work which none of us seem to have in abundance thanks to work and family matters LOL! Have a great day my friend, take care and enjoy that great system of yours!
 
Last edited:
May 30, 2010
13,969
42
48
Portugal
#31
I was told today that the Q-Sub subwoofers have only line level inputs.
Unfortunately, as there is no documentation online and the Magico subs are set using a computer and microphones in a complex process - no dials or switches as in most subs :( - we are not aware of their extensive setup capabilities.
 
#32
Unfortunately, as there is no documentation online and the Magico subs are set using a computer and microphones in a complex process - no dials or switches as in most subs :( - we are not aware of their extensive setup capabilities.
That's unfortunate,...when people don't open up about specs and capabilities so we can know what we buy, some customer prefer vendors and solutions who do so.
 

DonH50

Member Sponsor & WBF Technical Expert
Jun 23, 2010
3,527
3
38
Monument, CO
#33
Don,

Thank you for all the great information...-3db at 7Hz,...OMG!!! You are all set as they say. I'll need to check them out; over-paying for something that has SOTA performance just to get a name is not my style though I do have some upper-priced gear but only because it was the best-sounding to my ears. The Rythmiks seem to be a breath of fresh air in a (getting) drastically over-priced subwoofer market; rumor has it also that Legacy is about to bring out a new performance-shattering sub without a vicious price tag to compete with the big names so I have 2 to research. WAF won't allow for 2, 3, 4 or six-pack of subwoofers like some of you have so I have to find the model that will be 'one and done' :cool:! I've always had a warm spot for Maggies, the 3.x and 20x in particular but have always wound up with traditional driver-based speakers due to the majority of the music I listen to. Those subs must round them out properly though with that low frequency behavior in room,....would love to hear what such a system is capable of!

Beautiful horn.....I had a .468 gold-plated 1978 Benge that had a similar look at a distance though it was gold-plated; still miss that horn after all these years. I picked up a Bach Strad B-flat 3 years ago; they are much improved over many years ago when their B-flat and C horns (to me) sounded compressed and non-emotional (which led me to the Benge and other horns). I still think that Flip's Wild Thing or another Kantsul or a Monette will be more my style if I can get the chops back to what they were 32+ years ago but hey, that only takes TIME away from work which none of us seem to have in abundance thanks to work and family matters LOL! Have a great day my friend, take care and enjoy that great system of yours!
Thanks, you too! I have a benevolent wife who's put up with my music (playing or reproduced) since our college days. And I have a media room in the basement that is "mine" so I have leeway to play.

One last off-topic post: I help moderate a trumpet forum so, if you want another place to hang, check it out -- http://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/ Amazingly enough, over there I am one of the "subjective" ones since I follow Jacobs and try to quit thinking and just play the durn thing. :) It gets contentious over there too, of course.
 
#34
Thanks, you too! I have a benevolent wife who's put up with my music (playing or reproduced) since our college days. And I have a media room in the basement that is "mine" so I have leeway to play.

One last off-topic post: I help moderate a trumpet forum so, if you want another place to hang, check it out -- http://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/ Amazingly enough, over there I am one of the "subjective" ones since I follow Jacobs and try to quit thinking and just play the durn thing. :) It gets contentious over there too, of course.
Very cool...thank you!
 

adyc

VIP/Donor
Jan 6, 2013
351
1
18
#35
Unfortunately, as there is no documentation online and the Magico subs are set using a computer and microphones in a complex process - no dials or switches as in most subs :( - we are not aware of their extensive setup capabilities.
http://www.audioshark.org/magico-61/magic-q-sub-15s-house-10993-page2.html

Post 16 may give you the answer. One needs a computer to connect to their USB port to control the settings. I think they also have an Ethernet port to access the settings as well.
 
#36

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