Living Voice Vox Olympian - Kevin Scott talking about the design (video)

[Audiocrack]

It all makes a lot of sense to me and I utterly "get it" - my golden gate is cut from this cloth! However, where we diverge in taste is that I also like to be able to hear a Decca recording for example and then a modern DG and them sounding so very different in that one can easily distinguish the 2. Colour in this latter context means to me that the sonic signature imparted is so heavy so as to diminish the difference.

I totally agree with you that recordings made in different halls by various engineers should not sound the same. But I can hear very easily the differences between my Decca sxl lp's recorded in Kingsway hall and my EMI asd recordings dating from the same period.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I'm enjoying the discussion about our personal sonic compasses.

personally I work hard to have a system which tells me differences, while being very listenable. so any coloration which minimizes differences I avoid. I suppose there is a fine line on both ends of that thinking; you can have too great a focus on minute differences to the point of fatiguing levels of detail, or too great a focus on listenability to the point of coloration and sameness.

in my opinion a speaker system with an inherent coloration is not an acceptable choice and it's hopeless to find balance....however glorious that coloration might be. but that is just my own viewpoint and no doubt many/most would love to have the choice of the Vox Olympians as their cross to bear.

I think the better approach is like Audiocrack's direction; where he has his Kondo tubes powering neutral transducers like the Genesis and the Tidals. a life-like balance is attainable.

 

[Audiocrack]

Do you only listen to music recorded in that particular concert hall?
Keith

Of course not. But what is your point?

 

[Audiocrack]

I'm enjoying the discussion about our personal sonic compasses.

personally I work hard to have a system which tells me differences, while being very listenable. so any coloration which minimizes differences I avoid. I suppose there is a fine line on both ends of that thinking; you can have too great a focus on minute differences to the point of fatiguing levels of detail, or too great a focus on listenability to the point of coloration and sameness.

in my opinion a speaker system with an inherent coloration is not an acceptable choice and it's hopeless to find balance....however glorious that coloration might be. but that is just my own viewpoint and no doubt many/most would love to have the choice of the Vox Olympians as their cross to bear.

I think the better approach is like Audiocrack's direction; where he has his Kondo tubes powering neutral transducers like the Genesis and the Tidals. a life-like balance is attainable.

I suppose we are trying to achieve the same goals Mike although our systems differ on all points apart from the Trinity dac and the Taralabs Grandmaster evolution cables: a system that is on the one hand very transparent/revealing and let you hear a wealth of (micro) details but is on the other hand very 'enjoyable'. I want to be able to listen to my systems for say 7-8 hours a day without any fatigue. Therefore I value calmness and serinity in the musical presentation. I suppose that is the explanation why we both appreciate the afore mentioned audio components that we have in common.

 

[Audiophile Bill]

I'm enjoying the discussion about our personal sonic compasses.

personally I work hard to have a system which tells me differences, while being very listenable. so any coloration which minimizes differences I avoid. I suppose there is a fine line on both ends of that thinking; you can have too great a focus on minute differences to the point of fatiguing levels of detail, or too great a focus on listenability to the point of coloration and sameness.

in my opinion a speaker system with an inherent coloration is not an acceptable choice and it's hopeless to find balance....however glorious that coloration might be. but that is just my own viewpoint and no doubt many/most would love to have the choice of the Vox Olympians as their cross to bear.

I think the better approach is like Audiocrack's direction; where he has his Kondo tubes powering neutral transducers like the Genesis and the Tidals. a life-like balance is attainable.

Very nicely put, Mike. Agree with you on all accounts. That fatigue/detail continuum really is the key in this hobby for me. I am also fully aligned to your position on speakers.

 

[Audiophile Bill]

I totally agree with you that recordings made in different halls by various engineers should not sound the same. But I can hear very easily the differences between my Decca sxl lp's recorded in Kingsway hall and my EMI asd recordings dating from the same period.

That is because your speakers are much less coloured than the Vox Olympian. The Tidal La Assoluta is using state of the art driver technologies (among others things) to achieve the highest levels of performance (on paper and by ear). The natural warmth of the Kondo and life and resolution of the Trinity is obviously delivering a great balance!

 

[LL21]

Very nicely put, Mike. Agree with you on all accounts. That fatigue/detail continuum really is the key in this hobby for me. I am also fully aligned to your position on speakers.

+1 and have enjoyed reading comments here...interesting dialogue going on here. enjoying watching/reading the constructive comments.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I suppose we are trying to achieve the same goals Mike although our systems differ on all points apart from the Trinity dac and the Taralabs Grandmaster evolution cables: a system that is on the one hand very transparent/revealing and let you hear a wealth of (micro) details but is on the other hand very 'enjoyable'. I want to be able to listen to my systems for say 7-8 hours a day without any fatigue. Therefore I value calmness and serinity in the musical presentation. I suppose that is the explanation why we both appreciate the afore mentioned audio components that we have in common.

I think listen ability starts with the 'first watt' magic; both amp and speaker. and super low noise floor. the heart of the music is there. if that is missed then what follows can never catch up. and even though our systems approach that challenge in different ways, they pull off that trick. from there there are no doubt differences but likely more in common than not. and, of course, your classic and elegant old world rooms verses my more purpose built and tweaked approach. a different vibe but similar desires.

I cannot claim any resemblance to a specific concert hall as you do. the jazz club at the bottom of my hill is more my reference.

I think that at the top of the food chain (which is the subject at hand) that a system must be able to startle you and become physical, it should have that life-like vividness which makes the hair stand up on the back of your neck, and that mid bass impact that makes you forget about the reproduction chain. no system gets all the way there, but too much coloration gets in the way of these magical aspects. beauty only goes so far.

I totally agree on the 7-8 hour a day or more listening, your body should never feel assaulted. you can have it all.

 

[ddk]

It all makes a lot of sense to me and I utterly "get it" - my golden gate is cut from this cloth! However, where we diverge in taste is that I also like to be able to hear a Decca recording for example and then a modern DG and them sounding so very different in that one can easily distinguish the 2. Colour in this latter context means to me that the sonic signature imparted is so heavy so as to diminish the difference.

I'm with you on this Bill I want to hear the differences too but generally speaking show conditions are horrendous and difficult to achieve that kind of transparency with any system, specially one as complex as this one. Of all the shows we did only once I was satisfied with our sound the rest of the time I'd consider it a success when we could tolerate it for a few hours at a time without committing suicide ! That said, I also hear a very strong overriding character with ANJ setups; all that silver!

david

 

[ALF]

transducers...

I am sure that these transducers are glorious! However, for the tariff required, one could maybe reanimate Peter Sellers and have funds left over to hire him to nick some old Siemens that live out in the wilds of Utah...

Cheers!

 

[ddk]

I am sure that these transducers are glorious! However, for the tariff required, one could maybe reanimate Peter Sellers and have funds left over to hire him to nick some old Siemens that live out in the wilds of Utah...

Cheers!

 

[FrantzM]

I am sure that these transducers are glorious! However, for the tariff required, one could maybe reanimate Peter Sellers and have funds left over to hire him to nick some old Siemens that live out in the wilds of Utah...

Cheers!

Why would you be sure they are glorious? Reading somewhat through the posts here, it seems many aren't sure either it is all that great. And here lies a problem we have in this hobby: Past a certain level of price and reputation we become very hesitant to be candid and frank. Lest we lose our audiophile creds. Despite claims to the contrary we, audiophiles, do equate with great consistency higher price with higher performance. This product falls automatically under the uber-speaker denomination way by sheer virtue of its lofty price. Any criticism of its performance is seen as suspect and looked askance.
Frankly I will pay more attention to horns . I have been pleased by some more recently the JBL M2 or K2, ANother JBL I was told was only made for the Japanese market which I heard in NYC two years ago and the always spectacular sounding Acapella...There again Prices were all across the board and to my ears the JBL I heard more than matched the very expensive ones save for the highs where the Acapella have no peers IMO.
Horns have been good for a long time. It was time that they regain their glory but it doesn't have to be so dear ...

 

[Audiocrack]

I think listen ability starts with the 'first watt' magic; both amp and speaker. and super low noise floor. the heart of the music is there. if that is missed then what follows can never catch up. and even though our systems approach that challenge in different ways, they pull off that trick. from there there are no doubt differences but likely more in common than not. and, of course, your classic and elegant old world rooms verses my more purpose built and tweaked approach. a different vibe but similar desires.

I cannot claim any resemblance to a specific concert hall as you do. the jazz club at the bottom of my hill is more my reference.

I think that at the top of the food chain (which is the subject at hand) that a system must be able to startle you and become physical, it should have that life-like vividness which makes the hair stand up on the back of your neck, and that mid bass impact that makes you forget about the reproduction chain. no system gets all the way there, but too much coloration gets in the way of these magical aspects. beauty only goes so far.

I totally agree on the 7-8 hour a day or more listening, your body should never feel assaulted. you can have it all.

I think that I understand your points of life-like vividness and that all our systems are not able to achieve this. One example: my son plays the clarinet and I am always impressed by the energy and explosiveness only one instrument can produce, let alone a full classical orchestra of say 120 people. Our systems are not able to duplicate this. But to come as close as possible is one of the aspects that I like so much about our hobby.

As regards my earlier remark about calmness and serinity: they are for me important because these aspects attribute to the non fatigueness I am trying to achieve but this does not mean of course that a system must sound laid back and non explosive. One of the reasons I like my Tidal LA's so much is that a combination of 'fast' sounding single ended amps (in my case Kondo Gakuoh) and - relatively speaking (horns are of course even (way) more efficient) - efficient loudspeakers are able to give you this feeling of explosiveness. The 'jump factor' is now and then so strong with the LA's and my single ended Kondo's that it sometimes startles me.

Anyway, Ron and Bonzo will visit me in the beginning of next month and hopefully I will be able to demonstrate to them by the sound of my system(s) more clearly what I am trying to achieve than I can do in words as a non native speaker.

 

[Audiocrack]

I think listen ability starts with the 'first watt' magic; both amp and speaker. and super low noise floor. the heart of the music is there. if that is missed then what follows can never catch up. and even though our systems approach that challenge in different ways, they pull off that trick. from there there are no doubt differences but likely more in common than not. and, of course, your classic and elegant old world rooms verses my more purpose built and tweaked approach. a different vibe but similar desires.

I cannot claim any resemblance to a specific concert hall as you do. the jazz club at the bottom of my hill is more my reference.

I think that at the top of the food chain (which is the subject at hand) that a system must be able to startle you and become physical, it should have that life-like vividness which makes the hair stand up on the back of your neck, and that mid bass impact that makes you forget about the reproduction chain. no system gets all the way there, but too much coloration gets in the way of these magical aspects. beauty only goes so far.

I totally agree on the 7-8 hour a day or more listening, your body should never feel assaulted. you can have it all.

Forgot one thing in my previous post: totally agree with you on the importance of achieving a very low noise floor. The Taralabs Grandmaster evolution cables are so good at this; one of the reasons we both love them I suppose. And for me the Tripoint emperor, Troy se and Thor se grounding cable are crucial in this respect as well.

 

[Audiocrack]

I'm with you on this Bill I want to hear the differences too but generally speaking show conditions are horrendous and difficult to achieve that kind of transparency with any system, specially one as complex as this one. Of all the shows we did only once I was satisfied with our sound the rest of the time I'd consider it a success when we could tolerate it for a few hours at a time without committing suicide ! That said, I also hear a very strong overriding character with ANJ setups; all that silver!

david

Hi David,

Were the Kondo systems you listened to in the past set ups under show conditions or (also) home set ups? Totally agree with you that show conditions are most of the time pretty horrendous - one of the reasons why I have not visited audio shows for many years - and that the real quality of the Vox Olympian can only be judged under controlled circumstances. Roy Gregory did this in his review of the Vox for the audio beat website. He thought the Vox to be the best loudspeaker he has ever heard by a wide margin.

 

[ddk]

Hi David,

Were the Kondo systems you listened to in the past set ups under show conditions or (also) home set ups? Totally agree with you that show conditions are most of the time pretty horrendous - one of the reasons why I have not visited audio shows for many years - and that the real quality of the Vox Olympian can only be judged under controlled circumstances. Roy Gregory did this in his review of the Vox for the audio beat website. He thought the Vox to be the best loudspeaker he has ever heard by a wide margin.

Hi Rudolph,

I briefly owned a mixed AN Japan & UK system back in 90's but heard the current Kondo models mostly under show conditions or dealer showrooms, neither one of which I particularly trust or had any control over. A while back a customer brought his Kondo silver wires here to demo some horns, that's when I heard them and recognized that it's their very strong sonic signature I was hearing at the shows and not so much the electronics.

The Vox Olympians look beautiful to me and am very familiar with the Vitavox drivers he's using, pretty sure that they can sound wonderful in the right setting.

david

 

[Audiocrack]

Hi Rudolph,

I briefly owned a mixed AN Japan & UK system back in 90's but heard the current Kondo models mostly under show conditions or dealer showrooms, neither one of which I particularly trust or had any control over. A while back a customer brought his Kondo silver wires here to demo some horns, that's when I heard them and recognized that it's their very strong sonic signature I was hearing at the shows and not so much the electronics.

The Vox Olympians look beautiful to me and am very familiar with the Vitavox drivers he's using, pretty sure that they can sound wonderful in the right setting.

david

Fully understand what you are saying about the Kondo wires. They sound very nice but compared to my Tara cables they 'disguise' an awful lot of information and are not very dynamic. I have used only a few Kondo ic's in the past but I am not doing this anymore as I consider them to be too 'coloured' (if I may use this 'dangerous' word once more in this thread). However, to my ears the Kondo preamps and power amps are a completely different ballgame. But that is just me of course. I am glad that everybody can pick up his own 'coloured' or 'non coloured' equipment because (luckily?) one audio truth does not exist.

 

[Audiophile Bill]

Hi Rudolph,

I briefly owned a mixed AN Japan & UK system back in 90's but heard the current Kondo models mostly under show conditions or dealer showrooms, neither one of which I particularly trust or had any control over. A while back a customer brought his Kondo silver wires here to demo some horns, that's when I heard them and recognized that it's their very strong sonic signature I was hearing at the shows and not so much the electronics.

The Vox Olympians look beautiful to me and am very familiar with the Vitavox drivers he's using, pretty sure that they can sound wonderful in the right setting.

david

Hi David,

I have perhaps led people astray somewhat with my comments as there is absolutely no doubt that these do sound wonderful - it is just that they don't sound real - their presentation (in the context of the system I heard @ Munich) as I said in previous posts is just very rose-tinted. Strings don't always have that upper harmonic silky sheen that this system adds and trumpet is not always that sweet. Does it sound delightful to the ear - yes! Does this sound like real life - no. Anyway - personally I could not accept a system with low frequency extension to 40hz - I love orchestral, piano, and organ music with lots of content here. If you want the ultimate jazz club and female vocal speaker that you can smile at 24hrs per day (no fatigue ever) - perhaps this would be utopia. I can't comment on how this handles rock because they refused to play any rock material on the several hrs I listened to this over 2 days.

 

[Audiocrack]

Hi David,

I have perhaps led people astray somewhat with my comments as there is absolutely no doubt that these do sound wonderful - it is just that they don't sound real - their presentation (in the context of the system I heard @ Munich) as I said in previous posts is just very rose-tinted. Strings don't always have that upper harmonic silky sheen that this system adds and trumpet is not always that sweet. Does it sound delightful to the ear - yes! Does this sound like real life - no. Anyway - personally I could not accept a system with low frequency extension to 40hz - I love orchestral, piano, and organ music with lots of content here. If you want the ultimate jazz club and female vocal speaker that you can smile at 24hrs per day (no fatigue ever) - perhaps this would be utopia. I can't comment on how this handles rock because they refused to play any rock material on the several hrs I listened to this over 2 days.

Bill, I am not sure that the Vox speakers are to 'blame'. Apart from (very) difficult show conditions Kevin is using the Kondo dac and - I suppose as he is the UK Kondo distributor - Kondo ic's and loudspeaker cables all over.

As regards the latter, see my remarks in my previous post. The Kondo dac I know very well because I used it for many years.

Although I really like the beautiful sounding Kondo dac there is a reason why I sold it about two years ago: in my view it cannot compete with the current state of the art digital. To my ears eg our Lampi GG clearly beats it in nearly all relevant musical parameters and the same applies to my Trinity combo. I do not know why Kevin is still using the Kondo dac as it is not made anymore so I suppose he is commercially completely 'free' to pick another dac. I am not sure if Kevin already embraced digital files but one thing I know for sure: although very nice sounding the Kondo dac is holding back the performance of the Vox.

This all said, I have never heard the Vox although I spoke with Kevin a few times about visiting his shop and listen to it with various Kondo power amps (Gakuohs, Gakuons and Ongaku). However, I am 'done' speakerwise so I never actually made this trip to the UK.

 

[Audiophile Bill]

Bill, I am not sure that the Vox speakers are to 'blame'. Apart from (very) difficult show conditions Kevin is using the Kondo dac and - I suppose as he is the UK Kondo distributor - Kondo ic's and loudspeaker cables all over.

As regards the latter, see my remarks in my previous post. The Kondo dac I know very well because I used it for many years.

Although I really like the beautiful sounding Kondo dac there is a reason why I sold it about two years ago: in my view it cannot compete with the current state of the art digital. To my ears eg our Lampi GG clearly beats it in nearly all relevant musical parameters and the same applies to my Trinity combo. I do not know why Kevin is still using the Kondo dac as it is not made anymore so I suppose he is commercially completely 'free' to pick another dac. I am not sure if Kevin already embraced digital files but one thing I know for sure: although very nice sounding the Kondo dac is holding back the performance of the Vox.

This all said, I have never heard the Vox although I spoke with Kevin a few times about visiting his shop and listen to it with various Kondo power amps (Gakuohs, Gakuons and Ongaku). However, I am 'done' speakerwise so I never actually made this trip to the UK.

Morning, Rudolph.

Yes - I think you make a very astute point and I agree that this is likely the cause. It is a real shame that Kevin does not demonstrate at shows with his sme30/12 or Kuzma XL or a more neutral sounding DAC like the Trinity. I think you would most certainly love the Vox sound but I would not trade them out for your La Assoluta (not that you were thinking of doing such a thing!)