Koetsu

[DasguteOhr]

View attachment 154507

I’ve joined the Koetsu club.
As they say, you only live once.
Appreciate all the Jedi masters here who have paved the way.
Will be comparing it against the Hana Umami Red on a Kuzma 4Point.

If i zoom in your photo, it looks like the system has sunk into the back of the stone case. I'd would checked by a retipping service. Perhaps the adhesive or fastening has come loose. The cantilever angle no longer fits the case. Example: other koetsu

 

[mulveling]

There's no way the motor can move back on its own. It must have been installed that way. I think it should be OK, though the cantilever angle on that Koetsu is indeed a little steeper than average. Beautiful Blue Lace Diamond you've shown, though!

 

[DasguteOhr]

Other models are held in place with a screw. However, I would have it checked

 

[christensenleif@msn.com]

If i zoom in your photo, it looks like the system has sunk into the back of the stone case. I'd would checked by a retipping service. Perhaps the adhesive or fastening has come loose. The cantilever angle no longer fits the case. Example: other koetsuView attachment 158571

I absolutely refuse to believe this is how it´s supposed to be, whatever anyone claims

 

[Johan K]

I absolutely refuse to believe this is how it´s supposed to be, whatever anyone claims

I’m totally with you Leif on this one..!!!

 

[DasguteOhr]

I absolutely refuse to believe this is how it´s supposed to be, whatever anyone claims

sometimes it is quite simple, handwork always involves a certain amount of error.
is not aviation technology where human lives depend on.

 

[christensenleif@msn.com]

there must be some form of qc at that price level
a Japaneese craftsman would bow his head in shame....

 

[bonzo75]

I absolutely refuse to believe this is how it´s supposed to be, whatever anyone claims

The worse part is people are paying some of the highest retail for a product with poor QC, high rebuild costs, and poor sonics, just because of marketing mystique. I would almost rather have digital than play koetsu.

 

[J.R. Boisclair]

there must be some form of qc at that price level
a Japaneese craftsman would bow his head in shame....

Perhaps not. They don’t respect the vertical modulation angle of a Neumann cutterhead or a Westrex and so on. However, Koetsu is hardly alone in this. When more consumers can hear for themselves what they are missing because it is more expedient to build a cartridge with high VTA than to have it agree with cutterhead vertical modulation angles, they will ask for the changes in design and tooling from manufacturers. Until then, “we” won’t know what is being missed until we hear it for ourselves.

 

[christensenleif@msn.com]

The worse part is people are paying tons for a product with poor QC, high rebuild costs, and poor sonics, just because of marketing mystique. I would almost rather have digital than play koetsu.

almost........

 

[keithc]

I absolutely refuse to believe this is how it´s supposed to be, whatever anyone claims

We all agree.
The reason why he assumed mine looked weird is because it’s under dynamic load. If I took the cartridge off and flipped it upside down it looks even better than his pics…

Case and point: https://www.stereophile.com/content/listening-192-koetsu-ortofon-emt

 

[Johan K]

sometimes it is quite simple, handwork always involves a certain amount of error.
is not aviation technology where human lives depend on.

No Stephan, you are wrong here and you know it. I don’t buy your claim a bit, sorry pal !

 

[Johan K]

The worse part is people are paying some of the highest retail for a product with poor QC, high rebuild costs, and poor sonics, just because of marketing mystique. I would almost rather have digital than play koetsu.

Got to have a stereo first .. LOL.. !

 

[DasguteOhr]

there must be some form of qc at that price level
a Japaneese craftsman would bow his head in shame....

There will definitely be one qc, but no one knows what happens after delivery. The housing and generator are adjusted by hand, as they are not machine-made. Normally, the cantilever is aligned at an angle of approximately 20 degrees to the LP, so that the customer can position themselves at the lower edge housing parallel to the LP. is the diamond not be perfectly ground or glued? You must be able to achieve this by rotating the generator. Koetsu does this by adjusting the angle of the generator to achieve an SRA of 92°.

P.S
I've disassembled many DL 103s to use them with different housings. You wouldn't believe how difficult it is to get the perfect angle by hand and fix it.

 

[J.R. Boisclair]

There will definitely be one qc, but no one knows what happens after delivery. The housing and generator are adjusted by hand, as they are not machine-made. Normally, the cantilever is aligned at an angle of approximately 20 degrees to the LP, so that the customer can position themselves at the lower edge housing parallel to the LP. is the diamond not be perfectly ground or glued? You must be able to achieve this by rotating the generator. Koetsu does this by adjusting the angle of the generator to achieve an SRA of 92°.View attachment 158592

P.S
I've disassembled many DL 103s to use them with different housings. You wouldn't believe how difficult it is to get the perfect angle by hand and fix it.

Out of the last 24 Koetsu carts I have analyzed, the average VTA (dynamically measured, level head shell) is 27.2 degrees with a standard deviation of 2.6 degrees. Their SRA is much closer to 92 degrees (yet has almost twice the standard deviation as VTA!), but I remain inclined to believe rake angle is not nearly as audible as VTA - by a long shot - though the evidence we gather in this effort next year may cause a shift in this position.

 

[DasguteOhr]

Out of the last 24 Koetsu carts I have analyzed, the average VTA (dynamically measured, level head shell) is 27.2 degrees with a standard deviation of 2.6 degrees. Their SRA is much closer to 92 degrees (yet has almost twice the standard deviation as VTA!), but I remain inclined to believe rake angle is not nearly as audible as VTA - by a long shot - though the evidence we gather in this effort next year may cause a shift in this position.

27°is a bit strange,considering how many mm you have to screw up or down for 1° on a 9" tonearm.
I think the sharper the diamond cut, the more you'll immediately hear the SRA angle. For example, Van Hul used to write the VTA angle in the box of his cartridges in 90ties.
You knew right away that parallel VTA to the record wouldn't sound good. But the cutterheads probably vary from 18-23°, so it will be different from record to record.
VTA on the fly tonearms make everything easier.At the beginning I wrote down my settings. Today I enjoy the music and change the angle only 140gr and 200gr lp.

 

[J.R. Boisclair]

27°is a bit strange,considering how many mm you have to screw up or down for 1° on a 9" tonearm.
I think the sharper the diamond cut, the more you'll immediately hear the SRA angle. For example, Van Hul used to write the VTA angle in the box of his cartridges in 90ties.
You knew right away that parallel VTA to the record wouldn't sound good. But the cutterheads probably vary from 18-23°, so it will be different from record to record.
VTA on the fly tonearms make everything easier.At the beginning I wrote down my settings. Today I enjoy the music and change the angle only 140gr and 200gr lp.

It shouldn’t be called “VTA on the fly” as I have discussed in a few videos because what you hear as a result of changing arm height has next to nothing to do with how it sounds to change VTA/SRA on its own. What we hear is multiple vector forces changing.

Your hypothesis about a smaller minor radius being the cause of increased sensitivity to rake angle is a good one - and one I used to make - but the major radius is in contact with a straight line (vertical cross section of groove wall) and a radius meeting a straight line presents a point of contact, not a line contact. Groove deformation must occur to cause something approximating what we call “line contact”. However, this is a rather poorly studied issue and our first attempts using finite element analysis show this deformation is incredibly small. Again, we may change our position when and if additional evidence to the contrary comes in.

Even if significant enough deformation does occur, it still begs the question whether the mechanical distortion induced is significant or not. Again, our initial FEA work suggests you need A LOT of rake error to induce mechanical distortion that rates anywhere close to that we find in zenith error or VTA error.

You are also correct that there is a good deal of variability in the vertical modulation angle of cutterheads. However, we know that after lacquer springback, most of the Neumann model heads were at 18 degrees when the faceplate is aligned with the carriage housing (and these were/are the most commonly used in stereo era) and most other brands are LESS than this - some effectively at zero degrees VMA!

 

[DasguteOhr]

No Stephan, you are wrong here and you know it. I don’t buy your claim a bit, sorry pal !

I once had a Grado, but the factory-made stylus suspension was too soft and it didn't play cleanly. The exchange went smoothly. Johan, sometimes you get a Monday machine (and that doesn't just apply to cartridges). You can't accept that. You're expected to do good work for your salary.

 

[Johan K]

I once had a Grado, but the factory-made stylus suspension was too soft and it didn't play cleanly. The exchange went smoothly. Johan, sometimes you get a Monday machine (and that doesn't just apply to cartridges). You can't accept that. You're expected to do good work for your salary.

I hear what you say - but I still don’t buy your claim I did comment..

If I don’t do a good job or if I fail at my work, someone might die! Failure is NOT an option in my profession, just saying. It’s GOT to be 100% EVERY time… .

But let’s not talk job and salary on a Friday night, let’s talk music and party tunes, as for right now I warming up my system with ””Lab’s Cloud - Organic Mathematics””

Cheers my German friend !

 

[RickS]

I once had a Grado, but the factory-made stylus suspension was too soft and it didn't play cleanly. The exchange went smoothly. Johan, sometimes you get a Monday machine (and that doesn't just apply to cartridges). You can't accept that. You're expected to do good work for your salary.View attachment 158604

Boy does that Grado cylinder bring back memories. Had an X2+ I bought in 1988 I think, that came in the same container with the elastic band to keep the lid on. It was a great cartridge on my Thorens TD318, but it chattered badly on a Technics SL1200. Had an amazing sound.