Koetsu

Ralphio

Well-Known Member
May 12, 2015
12
16
133
UEM - I returned the cart to the Koetsu factory (shop) in Japan. Koetsu are pretty slim on details, but the cartridge was completely rebuilt to their design of a mono version retaining the body and perhaps platinum magnet.
 
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mulveling

Well-Known Member
Jul 7, 2017
171
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128
Wow! I learned something new about Koetsu today - mono cartridges use an Aluminum cantilever. Thanks @Ralphio ! Your Coralstone is also very beautiful. Sad how the "professional" audio press never digs into such details or gets dirty hands truly examining gear. Thankful for fellow hobbyists to help inform each other.

Unrelated - I've taken a new step forward in my analog rig this week, acquiring a lovely Audio Research Reference 3SE phono stage to compare against my VAC Renaissance SE used with various SUT boxes (Quadratic MC-1, EAR MC-3, wood Koetsu SUT). It sounds quite distinct - the ARC is very airy and conveys amazing spatial information. It's also very fast and incredibly detailed. By contrast, the VAC's MM tube stage is the ultimate in romantic, lush sonics with rich saturated tones. Though the ARC is more neutral, there's no dryness, graininess, or harshness to be found - it's just as musical, vivid and engaging as the VAC (possibly more so), just in a different way. These latter points are the problem for many of the cheaper "neutral" stages.

As Koetsus tend to have their own personalities, they could align with one phono stage or the other. I'm going through my cartridge collection (beyond just Koetsu) and learning which prefers what. I really need to get a notebook for this! I tried the Quadratic SUT with ARC in low gain mode, and initial impression was not good! But the ARC in high gain mode is wonderful.

The Coralstone (w/ diamond cantilever), after re-build, had been disappointing on the VAC. This combination was too dull, warm and thick. The Blue Lace (also w/ diamond) is much more open sounding and thrives on the VAC. But now I'm amazed at how STUNNING the Coralstone is on the new ARC! I'm so happy to fall in love with this Coralstone again (originally had it as boron years ago), and I can't wait to further explore the combination. The Blue Lace is wonderful on the ARC too - more resolving and dynamic for sure - though perhaps missing a bit of the warmth I'd gotten used to with the VAC.

The really good sign is that I enjoyed the Ref 3SE so much that it's been hard to stop listening. This "feature" has been harder to find since I quit drinking last year - simply thrilled to have it back. I'm looking forward to exploring my collection again!
 

jadis

Well-Known Member
Apr 28, 2010
10,258
3,550
910
Manila, Philippines
Wow! I learned something new about Koetsu today - mono cartridges use an Aluminum cantilever. Thanks @Ralphio ! Your Coralstone is also very beautiful. Sad how the "professional" audio press never digs into such details or gets dirty hands truly examining gear. Thankful for fellow hobbyists to help inform each other.

Unrelated - I've taken a new step forward in my analog rig this week, acquiring a lovely Audio Research Reference 3SE phono stage to compare against my VAC Renaissance SE used with various SUT boxes (Quadratic MC-1, EAR MC-3, wood Koetsu SUT). It sounds quite distinct - the ARC is very airy and conveys amazing spatial information. It's also very fast and incredibly detailed. By contrast, the VAC's MM tube stage is the ultimate in romantic, lush sonics with rich saturated tones. Though the ARC is more neutral, there's no dryness, graininess, or harshness to be found - it's just as musical, vivid and engaging as the VAC (possibly more so), just in a different way. These latter points are the problem for many of the cheaper "neutral" stages.

As Koetsus tend to have their own personalities, they could align with one phono stage or the other. I'm going through my cartridge collection (beyond just Koetsu) and learning which prefers what. I really need to get a notebook for this! I tried the Quadratic SUT with ARC in low gain mode, and initial impression was not good! But the ARC in high gain mode is wonderful.

The Coralstone (w/ diamond cantilever), after re-build, had been disappointing on the VAC. This combination was too dull, warm and thick. The Blue Lace (also w/ diamond) is much more open sounding and thrives on the VAC. But now I'm amazed at how STUNNING the Coralstone is on the new ARC! I'm so happy to fall in love with this Coralstone again (originally had it as boron years ago), and I can't wait to further explore the combination. The Blue Lace is wonderful on the ARC too - more resolving and dynamic for sure - though perhaps missing a bit of the warmth I'd gotten used to with the VAC.

The really good sign is that I enjoyed the Ref 3SE so much that it's been hard to stop listening. This "feature" has been harder to find since I quit drinking last year - simply thrilled to have it back. I'm looking forward to exploring my collection again!
Wonderful experience and revelation , Mike. Great report.
 

kleinbje

Well-Known Member
Dec 21, 2012
181
19
258
CT
Mitchell Cotter Sut went very well with Koetsu Urushi, unfortunately very expensive on the used market. bryston mk II has the same inner workings. usually much cheaper a bargain.;)if find them buy blind without thinking View attachment 84998
Thats very cool. I own a 9bst 5 channel amp in my home theater and think of their sound as cool to neutral. This SUT came with silver interconnects IIRC, very unlike what I would have expected from Bryston.
 

kleinbje

Well-Known Member
Dec 21, 2012
181
19
258
CT
Nice 4 tier Scuttle!
Thanks. It was a big purchase. Hard to audition in house. The drop in noise floor was immediate. There was clearly something special happening. Thanks goodness, it weighed over 300#'s.
 
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mtemur

Well-Known Member
Mar 26, 2019
258
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Hi Koetsu experts:

I recently got a retipped/rebuilt Onyx Platinum and am trying to mount on my Schroeder CB-9 tonearm with its standard headshell. This is the old style cartridge with unthreaded screw holes, which requires adding nuts to secure it. I'm running into an issue (probably newbie) where I don't have enough room to set up the cartridge so it's tangential at the null point (using a Smartractor). It's probably because the nuts and/or the screw heads are just a little too big to allow the full movement. I was curious if there are better ways to attach the cartridge - are there shallower profile screws/nuts that I can use? BTW, the screws are upside down since there's no room underneath for attaching nuts; I don't understand the design as you *have* to use nuts to secure it, but it does not have as much clearance for them. Not sure how these used to attached without the required clearance.

Thanks!
Anil

View attachment 89778 View attachment 89779 View attachment 89780
First of all you don’t have to buy anything. It seems your cartridge is far ahead which means too much overhang. You can reverse cartridge holding plate as suggested before and you can try Lofgren A or even Stevenson which will give a couple of mm but none of them will solve the issue cause according to the pictures overhang is too far off.

The problem caused by improper pivot to spindle distance setting. In that case too much or too less overhang is inevitable. Normally P2S distance is set before hand, effective lenght and overhang becomes a function of it. If manufacturer’s declared specs are not accurate (it happens) or any other reason I can not think of now you may have to stick to effect length and P2S distance becomes a function of it. This may be your case.

Easy solution: set overhang screw in the middle of the hole then move your arm far back by re-adjusting mounting screws of your tonearm (Increase P2S distance). While doing it re-align the smartractor and check overhang until stylus is in the ballpark. Fix tonearm screws then make fine adjustment by single overhang screw which you set in the middle of the hole. Before starting make sure you are measuring and setting smartractor right.
 
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dave slagle

Active Member
Apr 10, 2020
41
113
40
myemia.com
mtemur,

A few things need to be made clear from Anil. First, from his pictures I see the issue is not overhang but the maximum possible cartridge rotation is severely limited but the cartridge mount nuts. The pictures do not show the cartridge in the proper position on protractor and simply illustrate how obviously far off the alignment is. I am not saying overhang is set set perfectly but until the ability to get sufficient cartridge rotation is realized nothing else matters. One other point is it appears on the mounting plate as if the two outer cartridge mount holes and the center tonearm mount hole are in a straight line which means rotating the mount plate 180° will have no effect on the overhang,

dave
 

mtemur

Well-Known Member
Mar 26, 2019
258
208
115
47
mtemur,

A few things need to be made clear from Anil. First, from his pictures I see the issue is not overhang but the maximum possible cartridge rotation is severely limited but the cartridge mount nuts. The pictures do not show the cartridge in the proper position on protractor and simply illustrate how obviously far off the alignment is. I am not saying overhang is set set perfectly but until the ability to get sufficient cartridge rotation is realized nothing else matters. One other point is it appears on the mounting plate as if the two outer cartridge mount holes and the center tonearm mount hole are in a straight line which means rotating the mount plate 180° will have no effect on the overhang,

dave
you definitely have a point. offset angle is far off and it's more important than overhang but when I looked at the pictures I assumed that it can still be turned clockwise and offset angle can be achieved. if not then the nuts can be relocated to be on downside or whole screws can be replaced with more suitable ones. I said I don't see a major problem of offset angle here because once the overhang is properly set both tonearm and protractor will move back and the whole picture will change in a way that requires less offset angle. longer effective length requires less offset. fro example from 9" to 12" offset decreases around 5 degrees.
 

Yeti

Member
Dec 25, 2020
34
17
13
France
But it’s a 9” arm, which if it’s the same as my Schröder means 239.3mm effective length and the plate will be within a degree or two of parallel to the angle cut on the end of the headshell when aligned, whatever alignment is chosen.
 

Anil Kalagatla

Well-Known Member
Mar 3, 2011
59
74
403
Shoreline, WA
you definitely have a point. offset angle is far off and it's more important than overhang but when I looked at the pictures I assumed that it can still be turned clockwise and offset angle can be achieved. if not then the nuts can be relocated to be on downside or whole screws can be replaced with more suitable ones. I said I don't see a major problem of offset angle here because once the overhang is properly set both tonearm and protractor will move back and the whole picture will change in a way that requires less offset angle. longer effective length requires less offset. fro example from 9" to 12" offset decreases around 5 degrees.
Hi @mtemur, I actually tried rotating the mounting plate and it had not helped. As Dave says, it was mostly due to the restriction of the plate from rotating (which also had the side effect of not resulting in the correct overhang as I could not move it forward). I ended up getting the set of round nuts that Dave mentioned and those seem to do the trick! I now have a zillion more of those knurled nuts if others want some of them :) Thanks again, Dave!

I will post a picture tomorrow.

Anil
 

mtemur

Well-Known Member
Mar 26, 2019
258
208
115
47
Hi @mtemur, I actually tried rotating the mounting plate and it had not helped. As Dave says, it was mostly due to the restriction of the plate from rotating (which also had the side effect of not resulting in the correct overhang as I could not move it forward). I ended up getting the set of round nuts that Dave mentioned and those seem to do the trick! I now have a zillion more of those knurled nuts if others want some of them :) Thanks again, Dave!

I will post a picture tomorrow.

Anil
I’m glad that it’s solved.
 
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shakti

Well-Known Member
May 9, 2015
1,148
1,549
330
Cologne, Germany
wonderful Tigereye Platinum (today installed on Technics SL 1000R)

269D1D5E-3D78-4072-8CC5-2EED9D611BD3.jpg 84629A3D-824A-4E54-B701-B5BCCD799874.jpg
 
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