KeithR's "Dream Speaker" Search

[Al M.]

No, this won’t work at all. They both move in the direction of leanness sonically...

Not really. Octave is neutral, leaning towards saturation but not fattening of tonal colors, at least in my system and elsewhere I've heard it.

I know, you seem to have different experiences. It may depend on system context and the ear of the beholder.

 

[Al M.]

With the additional black box i assume no ?
In there they have an additional supply?
But it doesnt come standard you have to buy them extra , but i agree it might do the job as well

Yes, you have to buy the black box extra, but I consider it a standard feature. I haven't even tried my amp without it. Maybe I should one day, just for fun.

Indeed, the black box is not an extra supply, just a capacitor bank.

 

[andromedaaudio]

No, this won’t work at all. They both move in the direction of leanness sonically...

What you call lean i call neutral ( Convergent audio ) Octave sounds very good to my ears as well

 

[microstrip]

If we put together another XV event, you're welcome to bring the VTLs
But though not entirely necessary (to me, of course), I do like a bit of tube in there as well. We tend to favor them on the preamp though, REF10 and now Nagra HD Preamp.

Or simply the REF750 or the REF 610T ... Still my preferred big tube amplifiers, except for heat and tube replacement. They could even drive the Thesonusfaber (also called Sonus Faber Fenice), an extremely difficult load like no other could do. My Magico Mini IIs sounded like big speakers with the REF750!

 

[KeithR]

I'm not doing high powered tubes, gents. I've heard high-powered VTL, ARC, and Vac and don't like any of them. In fact, I really don't believe in high-powered tetrode amps. Reliability is abysmal for them as well.

I typically listen in the low-mid 80s. My guests listen louder than I do (all of them except for Phil are 90s+ folks). I tend to listen a little louder now as I'm in a house and don't fear disturbing neighbors - so get into the 90s myself on certain fun tracks. This was with DeVore as well.

I find it amusing people are criticizing YG highs, when that's one of the best parts of the speaker. As another dealer told me, its the best tweeter he's ever heard - I totally agree. My DeVores had a very good one as well, but this is more refined.

 

[bonzo75]

I agree with you, high watt push pull tubes are not my thing. Low watt tubes or high watt SS

 

[morricab]

Not really. Octave is neutral, leaning towards saturation but not fattening of tonal colors, at least in my system and elsewhere I've heard it.

I know, you seem to have different experiences. It may depend on system context and the ear of the beholder.

We compared with the monos (RME 130 I believe) and super black boxes on Thiel CS3.7, which is also a highly linear speaker with extended highs like the YGs. They were among the most SS sounding tube amps I have heard and when pushed hard turned somewhat "glassy" sounding. They are not leaning towards tonal saturation...

 

[morricab]

The NAT just doesn't work on the apogee. Heard it on the grands and the full range both. And yeah Flo is someone I deeply admire and respect for how he put in the work to get those grands and get them working at a very young age, but those NATs have to go

I think you only heard it after the whole thing was finished, right? By that time it was being controlled by the electronic "brain" and amps from Krell on the tweeter and subs. Not the same when the panel was being driven with a passive Diva crossover, which worked surprisingly well. Nevertheless, I am talking about a direct comparison between the JL2 sig and NAT SE2SE and that we preferred the NAT, regardless of what you think of the absolute merits.

 

[spiritofmusic]

I'm not doing high powered tubes, gents. I've heard high-powered VTL, ARC, and Vac and don't like any of them. In fact, I really don't believe in high-powered tetrode amps. Reliability is abysmal for them as well.

I typically listen in the low-mid 80s. My guests typically listen louder than I do (all of them except for Phil are 90s+ folks). I tend to listen a little louder now as I'm in a house and don't fear disturbing neighbors - so get into the 90s myself on certain fun tracks. This was with DeVore as well.

I find it amusing people are criticizing YG highs, when that's one of the best parts of the speaker. As another dealer told me, its the best tweeter he's ever heard - I totally agree. My DeVores had a very good one as well, but this is more refined.

So Keith, assuming you stay MF into Ampzilla into YG, that's it for tubes since low- to medium-pwr glass doesn't cut it w YG (despite the designer claim of 60 good Watts)?

For you, the choice is to fit the amps around the YG, end of story? And that means adios to tubes?

You really won't miss that indefinable tubes magic? Not even a bit?

 

[morricab]

Delicacy on high frequencies comes when they are driven properly. Like Krell can do with scintilla but not with horns

Krell sounds not great on Scintillas and/other Apogees. We had a Krell KSA150 on my Calipers and it was a rather coarse sound with a tight but surprisingly one note bass. LAMM M1.1 hybrids worked much better on Scintillas than Krell.

 

[bonzo75]

Yes but Krell sounds great with scintilla too. Not denying something might not work better.

 

[morricab]

The CAT presentation at CES on MBL 101E was anything but "lean." It was awesome full range sound without the brightness I always hear on MBL's. I've heard CAT 3 or 4 times at shows and they were not lean, I think its interesting that you describe them this way. Have you heard them just once or several times? I'm curious if it was an anomaly.

Agreed, CAT at shows has often sounded good. They worked very well with the German speaker brand Ascendo and often had good sound at Munich. IMO, they only fall short against very good SET and on speakers where so much power is needed.

 

[morricab]

What you call lean i call neutral ( Convergent audio ) Octave sounds very good to my ears as well

I don't call Convergent lean...

 

[morricab]

I'm not doing high powered tubes, gents. I've heard high-powered VTL, ARC, and Vac and don't like any of them. In fact, I really don't believe in high-powered tetrode amps. Reliability is abysmal for them as well.

I typically listen in the low-mid 80s. My guests typically listen louder than I do (all of them except for Phil are 90s+ folks). I tend to listen a little louder now as I'm in a house and don't fear disturbing neighbors - so get into the 90s myself on certain fun tracks. This was with DeVore as well.

I find it amusing people are criticizing YG highs, when that's one of the best parts of the speaker. As another dealer told me, its the best tweeter he's ever heard - I totally agree. My DeVores had a very good one as well, but this is more refined.

There is nothing wrong with the YG highs...it is more about the electronics that impact the high frequencies...

 

[Al M.]

We compared with the monos (RME 130 I believe) and super black boxes on Thiel CS3.7, which is also a highly linear speaker with extended highs like the YGs. They were among the most SS sounding tube amps I have heard and when pushed hard turned somewhat "glassy" sounding. They are not leaning towards tonal saturation...

As I said, it depends on system context. It also doesn't hurt to combine the power amp(s) with the accompanying preamp. Synergy and such .

Given what you think about Octave you would be highly surprised how it sounds in my system.

 

[andromedaaudio]

I don't call Convergent lean...

I thought you said both here ?

 

[morricab]

Yes but Krell sounds great with scintilla too. Not denying something might not work better.

No, it does not.

 

[morricab]

I thought you said both here ?

View attachment 61839

sorry, meant only Octave.

 

[morricab]

As I said, it depends on system context. It also doesn't hurt to combine the power amp(s) with the accompanying preamp. Synergy and such .

Given what you think about Octave you would be highly surprised how it sounds in my system.

Yes, I would be surprised...we also tried a couple versions of Octave preamp...compared to the Einstein "The Tube" my friend had at that time (later replaced by Aries Cerat Incito and then Impera) it was not much of a contest. You have to realize that Octave is pretty common over here so we have a fair amount of experience with the brand.

 

[microstrip]

Krell sounds not great on Scintillas and/other Apogees. We had a Krell KSA150 on my Calipers and it was a rather coarse sound with a tight but surprisingly one note bass. LAMM M1.1 hybrids worked much better on Scintillas than Krell.

Never understood why the KSA250, that had a similar circuit but just a lot of more power sounded so much better than the KSA150. even will less exigent speakers. Anyway it needed typically more than ten hours warm-up to sound at its best - and then space expanded in 3D.