Isolation Transformer and Balanced Power versus PS Audio Regenerator

[Alrainbow]

Lloyd, I've been reliably told that one CANNOT use a mains regen like P10 if power into room is balanced.

Manisandher uses a P10 after his 15kVA isolation transformer. But my 8kVA Westwick balanced trannie cannot be used in conjunction with a P10.

May I ask why it cannot be used ? Is it sound or a known issue that ps audio says is not to used ?

 

[spiritofmusic]

Audiophile Bill was prompt in highlighting this to me, I'll ask him to contribute.

 

[Alrainbow]

ty for asking him. We all learn from others

 

[ddk]

Nope. I have no interest in plugging high current amps into anything but the wall outlets.

Transformers will affect the sound of the entire system when plugged in the vicinity of that
system, wether or not a component is plugged in or not to that line. Depending on the quality of the product, balanced or not, your mains situation and your electronics the end result can go either way no guarantees that the sound won’t be worse using a transformer.

My experience with AC regenerator has always been negative, great to use them on a separate line for turntable motors but not for other components. Of course if ones using colored audiophile power cords and cables the distortion introduced by these units is just another addition into mix adding to the flavor of things .

david

 

[microstrip]

European (UK included... ) and US members have different main systems, most debates on mains should be separated or confusion will always affect the discussion at some point.

Our understanding of the subjective action of power supply devices is still at the voodoo level. Their action is dependent on both our particular mains conditions and equipment. Even if we carry a proper technical analysis of our mains the proper choice of a power conditioner is still a try and listen action, although practical circumstances can turn it in a faith or belief decision. All IMHO, YMMV.

 

[Alrainbow]

Ok let me ask you this and thanks for replying
Have you tried any re gen on any video products ?
Seen any improvement ?
It's a given a tv or most all video use switching psu even of its regulated after its input. So now we all can agree this is noisy so it seems to me just using a re gen Shields's us from all being used in our homes. Does this seem ok ?
Note any transformer Radiates EMI
This emi is offensive to all near it and how near can be debated.
But to promote a blanket statement as a fact without a valid reason to be measured for is promotion of ideals you feel.
I read forums and the amount of ideas posted that are unfounded myths always kills me.
How much get said and becomes folk law Always amazed me
If a re gen is made well and not used for massive power it is by specifications many orders cleaner than anyone's power grid.
As for color how can anyone know what color is over all best we get is judgment of experience.

 

[Alrainbow]

My reply was for DDK

 

[Ron Resnick]

Look forward to your decision here. Wonder if you might end up with both. Balanced at incoming power to the house (for the circuits running to your audio room), and then P20 in the room for sources.

Hello LL21,

I have decided not to use whole whose or whole room balanced power. I won’t buy a Torus and a PS Audio for the front-end; it will likely be the Torus only.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Lloyd, I've been reliably told that one CANNOT use a mains regen like P10 if power into room is balanced.

. . .

This does not make any sense to me. Why do you think this is correct?

 

[Alrainbow]

Ty Ron

 

[microstrip]

Hello LL21,

I have decided not to use whole whose or whole room balanced power. I won’t buy a Torus and a PS Audio for the front-end; it will likely be the Torus only.

Did you have your mains supply properly measured and analyzed?

 

[Ron Resnick]

Yes, AC power of approximately 115V comes into the house.

 

[LL21]

Hello LL21,

I have decided not to use whole whose or whole room balanced power. I won’t buy a Torus and a PS Audio for the front-end; it will likely be the Torus only.

Thanks Ron...so you anticipate buying a Torus unit that plugs into the audio room wall...and then you plug your front end into it? Which unit are you looking at?

 

[LL21]

https://www.avhub.com.au/product-reviews/hi-fi/torus-avr2-power-conditioner-review-test-488445

Interesting given that some here are using custom-designed rooms with custom designs for electrical wiring.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Ron, I really do not understand why you'd go to the trouble and expense of buying a Torus balanced transformer, and not plug the whole system into it, power amps included.

 

[Alrainbow]

Ron, I really do not understand why you'd go to the trouble and expense of buying a Torus balanced transformer, and not plug the whole system into it, power amps included.

Ron like most have read over and over how it hurts Sonics.
This is in part why I jumped now having said this it's a case by case evaluation.
Note this all homes fed from the power grid are fed from a transformer
So my ideals are of its large enough to isolate and not hold back it's fine.
I used a 10 k and felt it was fine , new amps have two 2500 watt transformers in each mono amp hence 20kw now.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Sure, we can only speak from our own personal experience.
All I can say is that going from: all out of the wall, to out of Burmester 948 conditioner, to basic balanced transformer, to audiophile 8kVA balanced, to this from isolated feed and into dedicated lines - has been a massive series of upticks.

Even a simple non audiophile balanced transformer handilly beat my 10x pricier Burmester conditioner.

 

[Alrainbow]

Love honesty ty and I mean it
I can't tell you how many ways I did this and grounding

 

[ddk]

Ok let me ask you this and thanks for replying
Have you tried any re gen on any video products ?
Seen any improvement ?
It's a given a tv or most all video use switching psu even of its regulated after its input. So now we all can agree this is noisy so it seems to me just using a re gen Shields's us from all being used in our homes. Does this seem ok ?
Note any transformer Radiates EMI
This emi is offensive to all near it and how near can be debated.
But to promote a blanket statement as a fact without a valid reason to be measured for is promotion of ideals you feel.
I read forums and the amount of ideas posted that are unfounded myths always kills me.
How much get said and becomes folk law Always amazed me
If a re gen is made well and not used for massive power it is by specifications many orders cleaner than anyone's power grid.
As for color how can anyone know what color is over all best we get is judgment of experience.

Sure you can use a regenerator to shield some of your components from the noisy components and appliances, wether it's a switching psu noise or noise from an AC motor, why I use one as mentioned above.

There are lots of widgets to clean AC and equipment noise both commercially and for high end including regenerators, some are effective at cleaning up the mains and some less so but all the ones I tried have a direct effect the sound in all kinds of ways and mostly negative including over a dozen regenerators and several generators. Yes according to my ideals of a pure natural musical sound. It is also a given that if the system has a lot of distortion and or coloration the negative sonic effects of these widgets will go unnoticed.

Why doesn't a cleaner regenerated supply sound better than the noisier dirtier mains is the question, I wish it was simple and I had all the answers but I don't, it's a mystery like why do power cords and even plugs and outlets effect the sound. I'm fine with you calling all this a myth, there are other posts in this thread with different views pick whichever you like and run with it.

david

 

[Alrainbow]

I can cloud this a bit more of this is possible
In the USA we generate at 60 hertz Europe is 50
I have heard big changes in sound at this as well.
To me 60 is better but is it lol.