Horns....Avantgarde vs. Cessaro

[KeithR]

Why does every thread get derailed? Keith you'll never have YG's. Why are we talking about YG's!?!?

I've only heard the small Cessaro with Tron at a few shows. Magnificent, easily my favorite sound of the show.

I think AG keeps getting better and the Duo XD was by far the best AG I've heard other than the full Trio with Bass Horns.

The question is, would you consider the Duo XD?

As far as AG vs Cessaro, it doesn't seem the small and big speakers sound necessarily alike and hence hard to compare "house sounds."

I prefer Cessaro build quality, but won't judge until I hear them in a real audition. I think AG bass might slam more because of the subs, but the Cessaros seem to have a better/more natural bass design.

 

[morricab]

Why does every thread get derailed? Keith you'll never have YG's. Why are we talking about YG's!?!?

I've only heard the small Cessaro with Tron at a few shows. Magnificent, easily my favorite sound of the show.

I think AG keeps getting better and the Duo XD was by far the best AG I've heard other than the full Trio with Bass Horns.

The question is, would you consider the Duo XD?

I heard the Duo XD last year with AG’s own amp and the sound was horrible and aggressively forward. A couple years earlier with good tubes and it was superb. Take home, they are sonic microscopes so you better drive them right.

I still haven’t heard the small Cessaro but I heard the Alpha sound very good with KR Audio...once the rest of the show shutdown . In principle, if the back horn is done right I see no reason they can’t be reference class for smaslish rooms...I know my Odeons play in that league with relatively cheap drivers by comparison.

 

[morricab]

I am skeptical about the 2 way Wagner. If you could swing the 3 way I would have more confidence that you’ll be getting more of what I’m hearing from the big horn systems. Plus it looks a lot more “horn-y.”

I think it would not be difficult to add supplemental bass.

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The Alpha or Beta are already quite large speakers. Wagner is much smaller and the mid-bass driver used is quite wideband (Supravox) so it covers easily the range. Supravox uses this driver in a speaker called Alizee that goes from 50-18khz. If you have only 20-25 square meter room Wagner is probably a better choice. Larger then you should get an Aries Cerat Symphonia .

 

[morricab]

As far as AG vs Cessaro, it doesn't seem the small and big speakers sound necessarily alike and hence hard to compare "house sounds."

I prefer Cessaro build quality, but won't judge until I hear them in a real audition. I think AG bass might slam more because of the subs, but the Cessaros seem to have a better/more natural bass design.

Audition of both would be mandatory but for AG , I would look more at Duo Mezzo.

 

[KeithR]

The Alpha or Beta are already quite large speakers. Wagner is much smaller and the mid-bass driver used is quite wideband (Supravox) so it covers easily the range. Supravox uses this driver in a speaker called Alizee that goes from 50-18khz. If you have only 20-25 square meter room Wagner is probably a better choice. Larger then you should get an Aries Cerat Symphonia .

The Alpha is $82k in the US, and therefore out of my budget. as is the Duo Mezzo.

I'm guessing my new room will be around 30 square meters which is the top end of the Cessaro specifications. I also like the size of the Wagner.

 

[audioquattr]

As far as AG vs Cessaro, it doesn't seem the small and big speakers sound necessarily alike and hence hard to compare "house sounds."

I prefer Cessaro build quality, but won't judge until I hear them in a real audition. I think AG bass might slam more because of the subs, but the Cessaros seem to have a better/more natural bass design.

True for me aswell, i much prefer Cessaro build (and driver) quality.

 

[audioquattr]

The Alpha is $82k in the US, and therefore out of my budget. as is the Duo Mezzo.

I'm guessing my new room will be around 30 square meters which is the top end of the Cessaro specifications. I also like the size of the Wagner.

The bass quantity might be bit less from the Cessaro but i prefer its quality. I heard the Wagner in much bigger room (>45m2) and it sounded awesome and still good bass.

 

[marslo]

I like very much the build quality of Cessaro horns but prefer the sound of my Duo Mezzo XD with Crossfire.
Didn’t have Cessaro at home though, my experience is based only on audio show presentations.

 

[KeithR]

FYI- Cessaro doesn't use Supravox drivers anymore and now does everything in-house

 

[Hi-FiGuy]

As we both know, Mike only listens at extremely loud volumes in an extremely big room for 5 hours a day

Until I get there then we really warm the room up!

 

[morricab]

FYI- Cessaro doesn't use Supravox drivers anymore and now does everything in-house

Ok, looks identical to a Supravox...

 

[D2Girls]

Are the Duo Mezzo worth the premium over the Duo XD, and if so, why?

 

[KeithR]

Are the Duo Mezzo worth the premium over the Duo XD, and if so, why?

I've heard they aren't as its not a real basshorn, but rather a waveguide

 

[Blackmorec]

Couple of AG stories.
Friend of mine had a home theatre system based on 2 Trios, 3 Unos, 7 sub-woofers and vacuum tube fire power.

Listened to a Tina turner concert....mind blowing. As Tina finished the last song of her encore my heart momentarily sank as I thought about fighting my way through the crowds before realising we were in his damned basement. Now that’s suspending disbelieve

Before moving back to the UK I had my own Trio drivers upgraded by AG. On re-installation AG personnel showed me a new way to set-up my subs (2 per channel). They turned the subs to face one another about 4-5 cm apart, in phase. With the huge horn-like acoustic impedance, the sensitivity went through the roof, producing bass like I’d never heard before.

 

[marslo]

Are the Duo Mezzo worth the premium over the Duo XD, and if so, why?

I have had Duo Omega G2 for 6 years but did not listen to Duo XD at home, only during audio shows. Now since 3 years I have Duo Mezzo XD.
XD series represent a significant leap in bass reproduction , control and overral integration with the room due to their advanced DSP.
It seems that the difference between Mezzo and Duo XD is only a waveguide like Keith says( short basshorn) but in reality also the cabinet of Mezzo is bigger and less resonant, as well as a stiffer metal support for big horn.
If it worth extra money is a matter of personal decicison. I would say that in small and medium size room Duo XD could be just fine but for big living room like mine ( around 100 sqm) Duo Mezzo XD are better.
Duo XD are probably the sweet spot in Avantgardes offer as far as price/ quality ratio is concerned but during our visit to AG HQ we preferred with my wife more coherent presentation of Duo Mezzo to Trio with small subwoofers. So I decided to change Duo Omega G2 for Duo Mezzo XD and I am really satisfied.
If one can afford to pay extra money and has a big room I would recommend Duo Mezzo XD.

 

[D2Girls]

My room is pretty small (like 35m3) so I guess that seals it. I appreciate the detailed response. Thank you.

 

[KeithR]

Duo XD are probably the sweet spot in Avantgardes offer as far as price/ quality ratio is concerned but during our visit to AG HQ we preferred with my wife more coherent presentation of Duo Mezzo to Trio with small subwoofers.

Watch out - Bonzo might not agree

 

[marslo]

Watch out - Bonzo might not agree

I am fully aware of that risk

 

[christoph]

I hope it is OK for Keith that I ask an Avantgarde Trio question in this thread.

Does any of the Avantgarde (Trio) afficionados here know at what frequency the Trio horns section should be crossed over to the subwoofer section?

I think I "talked" (in a thread here on WBF, or was it in the roon Forum?) to one norwegian Gentleman who is partnering his Trio horns section with some big ass custom built subwoofers.
Hopefully he can chime in with his knowledge/experience...

 

[Audiophile Bill]

I hope it is OK for Keith that I ask an Avantgarde Trio question in this thread.

Does any of the Avantgarde (Trio) afficionados here know at what frequency the Trio horns section should be crossed over to the subwoofer section?

I think I "talked" (in a thread here on WBF, or was it in the roon Forum?) to one norwegian Gentleman who is partnering his Trio horns section with some big ass custom built subwoofers.
Hopefully he can chime in with his knowledge/experience...

The lower (biggest spherical) horn on the Trio goes down to 100hz.