Help me to understand this, please!

[Johnny Vinyl]

I'm following another discussion on another forum and one member posted this comment:

NOTE: Red text is my insertion and not part of his quote)

Yes, putting tubes directly in the signal path (he is referring to a preamp) will give 90% of a tube's
effect, while putting them in an amp is about 10%. Just because something has a
fancy label and price tag to go along with it doesn't mean it's a magic bullet.

This seems rather disproportionate to me, but then, I know little about how tubes actually function.

 

[Gregadd]

I am not sure what he is talking about. But tubes tend to handle small signal amplifcation better. or that is what I was told.

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

I am not sure what he is talking about. But tubes tend to handle small signal amplifcation better. or that is what I was told.

He's basically saying tubes have no place in Power amps.....only preamps.

 

[Gregadd]

He's basically saying tubes have no place in Power amps.....only preamps.

He's entitled to his opinion.

 

[NorthStar]

...Or a tube CD player. Tube turntable?

* The preamp (low level volume gain) is the most sensitive and critical part of the audio path.
It is there that you get your main sound character first and foremost.
So tubes will have the greatest 'sound character' effect in the preamp than in the amp.

If you wanna go Tube all the way; get them in the preamp, the amp, and even the source.
But yes the preamp is the main contributor of tube sound, I think.
By what percentage exactly I don't know.
But my guess is that a tube amp would have more than 10%; with a solid state preamp.

Let's see the comments from one of the experts ....

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

He's entitled to his opinion.

LOL! of course he is! I just want to know if there is some validity to his claim, and I figured the experts here could help to understand.

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

...Or a tube CD player. Tube turntable?

* The preamp (low level volume gain) is the most sensitive and critical part of the audio path.
It is there that you get your main sound character first and foremost.
So tubes will have the greatest 'sound character' in the preamp than in the amp.

If you wanna go Tube all the way; get them in the preamp, the amp, and even the source.
But yes the preamp is the main contributor of tube sound, I think.
By what percentage exactly I don't know.

Let's see the comments from one of the experts ....

Now were getting close. If his 90/10 claim is true, then why even bother with a tubed power amp? Ok, I could see it in a really highend setup where you're able to squeeze every last drop of sound out of a system.

 

[treitz3]

I just want to know if there is some validity to his claim....

Hey, John. I type this as I chuckle. Not in my book or experience. I have and have heard plenty of both and I do not think you could even attempt to put a number or percentage on it. Personally, I wouldn't pay him any mind, at least with this.

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

Hey, John. I type this as I chuckle. Not in my book or experience. I have and have heard plenty of both and I do not think you could even attempt to put a number or percentage on it. Personally, I wouldn't pay him any mind, at least with this.

Thank you Sir! Some of the other members (as tube owners) were a little confused by his statement and also slightly upset, so I thought I'd come here to find the "truth". I'll just keep moderating the discussion and make sure they don't get into verbal fisticuffs! LOL!

 

[DonH50]

In an amplifier chain, the earlier a gain block is placed in the system, the more impact the characteristics of the gain block will have on the final output. I presume that's the point, although I would not put a percentage on it. The ratio depends upon the characteristics of all the other blocks...

 

[microstrip]

If the guy thinks that the tube effect is just adding distortion, he should reverse the percentages. But if he thinks that tubes just add noise and micro-phonics I would accept his view.

I have not read the original posts, but IMHO anyone seriously knowing about tubes would not commit in such statements.

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

If the guy thinks that the tube effect is just adding distortion, he should reverse the percentages. But if he thinks that tubes just add noise and micro-phonics I would accept his view.

I have not read the original posts, but IMHO anyone seriously knowing about tubes would not commit in such statements.

I would agree with that.

 

[rded]

Hi John,

I did not answer in that thread at the other forum because I wanted the poster to A) fend for himself and B) get a feel for how knowledgeable he really is with tubes and the associated gear.

IMHO, it is quite impossible to quantify and give a ratio on how the input(pre amp) tubes and Output(amp section) tubes "alter" the sonic signature but I will have to agree that the input section will "color" the sound more than the rest of the tube chain. When I first started rolling tubes, I was astounded at how a little Telefunken 12AT7 tube opened up the highs and added more sparkle which I perceive as "airy". Hower, one cannot belittle the importance of output tubes because depending on the type of tube(i.e. Kt88 vs Kt120) the latter will yield more current if the amp's plate voltage is up to par. Hence, the more the current, the better control and grip the amp will have on the speakers yielding tighter bass and a bigger perceived sound stage.