Grandinote Mach 8 XL vs Mach 9 speakers

[Silverno]

I don't see any carbon on the 8XL, maybe the finish. The 8 Evoluzione are made of carbon.

 

[morricab]

Yes, but I have my doubts.

Such as?

 

[abeidrov]

Such as?

It’s all in my last post.

 

[morricab]

It’s all in my last post.

All I get from your posts is that you think WA is better on big scale music and that Jadis worked well with speakers on simple music but you liked it better with Grandinote amp and now Gryphon amp (I guess on big scale music). That isn't a whole lot of detail. There is no real meat as to what you are hearing that is leading you to those kinds of thoughts...guess that is what I was looking for.

 

[Kozak170]

Surprise and good news: Mephisto is now better with the Grandinote speakers, than both own Grandinote amp and Jadis. Bad news: Mephisto is even better with WA speakers on a large scale orchestral music

Really interesting and surprising that, contrary to the article you shared, you preferred a high-power SS amp over low-power tube amps with the 8 XL, especially since the article had favored the 2A3 and 300B over the 37-watt Shinai by a wide margin. Can I ask, what is the size of your room in square meters?

Grandinote Mach 8 XL (52 in² total woofer area) indeed has more than twice the piston surface of the Wilson Sasha DAW (23 in²). That means, in theory, it can move more air with less excursion, producing greater bass extension, output, and dynamic headroom, especially noticeable in large-scale orchestral music where the bass drum, timpani, and low brass demand huge dynamic swings. Additionally, the higher sensitivity of the Grandinote, combined with its large woofer area, suggests superior dynamics and the ability to reproduce the contrast between a quiet passage and a full orchestral crescendo without strain.

So, if you’re listening to Mahler, Bruckner, or large symphonic works, the Grandinote Mach 8 XL can indeed sound more lifelike, visceral, and dynamically uncompressed the kind of “air-moving realism” that makes orchestral crescendos feel like the real thing.

 

[Silverno]

Why are they so hard to position? The off-axis dispersion?

every little movement produces a notable change in the sound, and finding the best position is not at all easy

 

[abeidrov]

Sorry to disappoint you, I thought, I was quite clear in my assessment. As I said before, the significant portion of the lower register is simply missing with the Grandinote speakers compared to Sashas. I put the speakers side by side, and it was confirmed by 3 other audiophiles, who visited me. This is clear with all kinds of music, but of course is more obvious with large orchestra. I tried the speakers with 4 different amps and the result was the same, with Mephisto giving the lowest base they could produce.

This is not say they are bad speakers, on the contrary, I definitely prefer their tone to WA speakers. These are wonderful speakers especially considering their modest price. And if I was moving from something smaller, like Living Voice Auditorium, I would be more than happy to get them.

 

[Kozak170]

Thank you for your explanation. Based on your experience and the comparison you've done, it's possible that the Grandinote Mach 8 XL still needs more time for the break-in period, considering that about a month has passed since you started testing the speakers, and if we estimate it’s been used around 5 hours a day, that’s only about 150 hours of use.
Speakers with large woofer areas like the Grandinote generally require more time to break in and settle, which could result in deeper, more extended bass as the woofer continues to loosen up.

Initially, the lower bass might not sound as full or powerful as expected, but after sufficient break-in, the sound may improve significantly, providing more dynamics and depth, especially in the lower frequencies. This is common with many speakers, even those with simpler designs like the Grandinote. While it avoids the complexity of a crossover, the large driver areas and full-range design still require a break-in period to reach optimal performance.

So, it might be worth giving it more time and continuing to test the speakers in different conditions to see if you notice any improvements in bass response.

 

[bonzo75]

Surprise and good news: Mephisto is now better with the Grandinote speakers, than both own Grandinote amp and Jadis. Bad news: Mephisto is even better with WA speakers on a large scale orchestral music

Videos? If you could post Rabin, Romeo and Juliet

 

[abeidrov]

Thank you for your explanation. Based on your experience and the comparison you've done, it's possible that the Grandinote Mach 8 XL still needs more time for the break-in period, considering that about a month has passed since you started testing the speakers, and if we estimate it’s been used around 5 hours a day, that’s only about 150 hours of use.
Speakers with large woofer areas like the Grandinote generally require more time to break in and settle, which could result in deeper, more extended bass as the woofer continues to loosen up.

Initially, the lower bass might not sound as full or powerful as expected, but after sufficient break-in, the sound may improve significantly, providing more dynamics and depth, especially in the lower frequencies. This is common with many speakers, even those with simpler designs like the Grandinote. While it avoids the complexity of a crossover, the large driver areas and full-range design still require a break-in period to reach optimal performance.

So, it might be worth giving it more time and continuing to test the speakers in different conditions to see if you notice any improvements in bass response.

Yes, also, I might have some room modes, that somehow interfere with the low frequencies of the speakers. I wonder, if there are any independent measurements of the speakers confirming the claimed frequency response of 19 Hz. I haven’t seen any.

 

[Kozak170]

This should also be taken into consideration that the Grandinote Mach 8 XL uses a crossover-free design, aiming for a pure, un-equalized sound. Instead of using an electronic crossover to route specific frequencies, it relies on advanced mechanical filtering behind the drivers to control breakup. This unique approach may contribute to the need for an extended break-in period, as the mechanical components must settle precisely. During this time, the flexibility and range of motion of the drivers increase, allowing the speaker to reproduce the full frequency range, including the lower bass.

 

[Kozak170]

Yes, also, I might have some room modes, that somehow interfere with the low frequencies of the speakers. I wonder, if there are any independent measurements of the speakers confirming the claimed frequency response of 19 Hz. I haven’t seen any.

The only independent measurement I’ve seen for Grandinote speakers is for the Mach 2 model. In this measurement, the lowest frequency response of the speaker is recorded at around 27 Hz. This aligns with the manufacturer's claim for Mach 2 (27Hz to 20kHz).

 

[morricab]

Sorry to disappoint you, I thought, I was quite clear in my assessment. As I said before, the significant portion of the lower register is simply missing with the Grandinote speakers compared to Sashas. I put the speakers side by side, and it was confirmed by 3 other audiophiles, who visited me. This is clear with all kinds of music, but of course is more obvious with large orchestra. I tried the speakers with 4 different amps and the result was the same, with Mephisto giving the lowest base they could produce.

This is not say they are bad speakers, on the contrary, I definitely prefer their tone to WA speakers. These are wonderful speakers especially considering their modest price. And if I was moving from something smaller, like Living Voice Auditorium, I would be more than happy to get them.

Thanks for the additional info. All I can say about the bass is that this doesn’t fit with my hearing them live, where they had pretty awesome bass, nor does it fit with some YT videos I found and posted here.
This means probably A) they still need more break in or B) there is a bass issue in your room that is being triggered by them. If you move around the room do you get more or even less bass??

 

[bonzo75]

This is not say they are bad speakers, on the contrary, I definitely prefer their tone to WA speakers. These are wonderful speakers especially considering their modest price. And if I was moving from something smaller, like Living Voice Auditorium, I would be more than happy to get them.

Can you please post videos of the WA and the Grandi with Gryphon playing the Rabin and the Romeo and Juliet

 

[sbo6]

Thank you for your explanation. Based on your experience and the comparison you've done, it's possible that the Grandinote Mach 8 XL still needs more time for the break-in period, considering that about a month has passed since you started testing the speakers, and if we estimate it’s been used around 5 hours a day, that’s only about 150 hours of use.
Speakers with large woofer areas like the Grandinote generally require more time to break in and settle, which could result in deeper, more extended bass as the woofer continues to loosen up.

Initially, the lower bass might not sound as full or powerful as expected, but after sufficient break-in, the sound may improve significantly, providing more dynamics and depth, especially in the lower frequencies. This is common with many speakers, even those with simpler designs like the Grandinote. While it avoids the complexity of a crossover, the large driver areas and full-range design still require a break-in period to reach optimal performance.

So, it might be worth giving it more time and continuing to test the speakers in different conditions to see if you notice any improvements in bass response.

Woofers commonly require minimal break - in time. And as the owner noted, Wilsons as with most more conventional designs (3 - way) with dedicated bass drivers versus drivers that are closer to full range covering midrange frequencies rarely deliver such a large frequency range effectively. That's why very, very few designers employ such an approach. For them to be effective, it might make sense to roll them off at ~80Hz and add subwoofers to cover the bottom 1.5 octaves.

 

[morricab]

Woofers commonly require minimal break - in time. And as the owner noted, Wilsons as with most more conventional designs (3 - way) with dedicated bass drivers versus drivers that are closer to full range covering midrange frequencies rarely deliver such a large frequency range effectively. That's why very, very few designers employ such an approach. For them to be effective, it might make sense to roll them off at ~80Hz and add subwoofers to cover the bottom 1.5 octaves.

As I demonstrated with other videos, as well hearing them live, the speakers can produce outstanding bass. Why they don’t apparently in Abeidrovs’s room probably has to do with his room, not the speakers. Your analysis disregards these facts.

 

[bonzo75]

Woofers commonly require minimal break - in time. And as the owner noted, Wilsons as with most more conventional designs (3 - way) with dedicated bass drivers versus drivers that are closer to full range covering midrange frequencies rarely deliver such a large frequency range effectively. That's why very, very few designers employ such an approach. For them to be effective, it might make sense to roll them off at ~80Hz and add subwoofers to cover the bottom 1.5 octaves.

It is very easy to create more bass, disregarding quality of sound.

 

[abeidrov]

It is very easy to create more bass, disregarding quality of sound.

There is bass and there is foundation. I have not seen any videos of Grandi speakers with big orchestra. So far, my conclusion is that Grandinote Mach 8 XL are not capable of reproducing this type of music with the same amount of realism as my current speakers.

 

[bonzo75]

There is bass and there is foundation. I have not seen any videos of Grandi speakers with big orchestra. So far, my conclusion is that Grandinote Mach 8 XL are not capable of reproducing this type of music with the same amount of realism as my current speakers.

I have not seen any Grandinote videos apart from yours.

I know that Wilsons cannot do orchestra because they aren't coherent. Orchestra is not about just hearing bass, it is much more than that. Wilsons also do not have the dynamic range to swell properly from low to high, or to do the quieter parts properly, which is a must or an orchestra. 50 instruments must play coherently together.

Btw, your Gryphon does play the Rabin better than the Jadis and the Grandinote amp on my earphones, will listen on soundbox later.

 

[morricab]

I have not seen any Grandinote videos apart from yours.

I know that Wilsons cannot do orchestra because they aren't coherent. Orchestra is not about just hearing bass, it is much more than that. Wilsons also do not have the dynamic range to swell properly from low to high, or to do the quieter parts properly, which is a must or an orchestra. 50 instruments must play coherently together.

Btw, your Gryphon does play the Rabin better than the Jadis and the Grandinote amp on my earphones, will listen on soundbox later.

Yes you have, see posts #73 and #74 and you even commented on #73. They both have quite good bass.