Extreme Luxury Pricing in Audio

[wil]

In the relatively short time (about 12 yrs) that I've been a part of the Audiophile world, I've noticed an accelerating trend in high-end gear pricing that has only the most tenuous relationship to actual value. The economics term for this is Veblen Pricing where, in the luxury marketplace, demand increases as price increases. Extreme examples of this are found in luxury items created for the super-rich: "designer" jewelry, perfume, yachts, cars, watches and high end audio.

We see it most commonly in some cables and fuses. And now we see even a phono cartridge, from a highly respected audio company, listed for $1million (phono pre included). As far as I can see, what separates this companies phono cartridge/pre from their other models, which retail at approximately $50k, is..... $950,000 -- and not some mind-blowing revolutionary technology.

I don't bring this up to rag on companies that choose to exploit this market. But I do wonder how it effects the industry and consumers who support high end Audio. Even though there is a healthy high-value segment in Audio, I believe the extreme pricing we're seeing is pushing a significant segment of the high-end market into the luxury-priced irrational stratosphere. As this type of pricing becomes more common, I wonder if some manufacturers actually feel they need to inflate their prices to be taken seriously in the marketplace. This is bad news any way you slice it imho.

 

[Carlos269]

In the relatively short time (about 12 yrs) that I've been a part of the Audiophile world, I've noticed an accelerating trend in high-end gear pricing that has only the most tenuous relationship to actual value. The economics term for this is Veblen Pricing where, in the luxury marketplace, demand increases as price increases. Extreme examples of this are found in luxury items created for the super-rich: "designer" jewelry, perfume, yachts, cars, watches and high end audio.

We see it most commonly in some cables and fuses. And now we see even a phono cartridge, from a highly respected audio company, listed for $1million (phono pre included). As far as I can see, what separates this companies phono cartridge/pre from their other models, which retail at approximately $50k, is..... $950,000 -- and not some mind-blowing revolutionary technology.

I don't bring this up to rag on companies that choose to exploit this market. But I do wonder how it affects the industry and consumers who support high end Audio. Even though there is a healthy high-value segment in Audio, I believe the extreme pricing we're seeing is pushing a significant segment of the high-end market into the luxury-priced irrational stratosphere. As this type of pricing becomes more common, I wonder if some manufacturers actually feel they need to inflate their prices to be taken seriously in the marketplace. This is bad news any way you slice it imho.

I agree with what you stated. I have been in the hobby for over 35 years. High-End Audio has always been an expensive hobby but the current state of affairs and pricing is not only detached from reality but frankly ridiculous. It makes the industry’s consumers look gullible to the trappings of other luxury items: vanity, pride of ownership and all the other shallow minded & pretentiousness associated with insecure individuals with low self esteem longing for acceptance.

 

[Lee]

In the relatively short time (about 12 yrs) that I've been a part of the Audiophile world, I've noticed an accelerating trend in high-end gear pricing that has only the most tenuous relationship to actual value. The economics term for this is Veblen Pricing where, in the luxury marketplace, demand increases as price increases. Extreme examples of this are found in luxury items created for the super-rich: "designer" jewelry, perfume, yachts, cars, watches and high end audio.

We see it most commonly in some cables and fuses. And now we see even a phono cartridge, from a highly respected audio company, listed for $1million (phono pre included). As far as I can see, what separates this companies phono cartridge/pre from their other models, which retail at approximately $50k, is..... $950,000 -- and not some mind-blowing revolutionary technology.

I don't bring this up to rag on companies that choose to exploit this market. But I do wonder how it effects the industry and consumers who support high end Audio. Even though there is a healthy high-value segment in Audio, I believe the extreme pricing we're seeing is pushing a significant segment of the high-end market into the luxury-priced irrational stratosphere. As this type of pricing becomes more common, I wonder if some manufacturers actually feel they need to inflate their prices to be taken seriously in the marketplace. This is bad news any way you slice it imho.

Some of the pricing has become ridiculous but there are some benefits for the rest of us:

1. Doing flagship product design leads to breakthroughs in approaches and typically trickles into more affordable products.

2. The money earned from the ultra luxury segment enables financial health for many companies. It can also subsidize very high value for dollar components.

 

[PeterA]

I agree with what you stated. I have been in the hobby for over 35 years. High-End Audio has always been an expensive hobby but the current state of affairs and pricing is not only detached from reality but frankly ridiculous. It makes the industry’s consumers look gullible to the trappings of other luxury items: vanity, pride of ownership and all the other shallow minded & pretentiousness associated with insecure individuals with low self esteem longing for acceptance.

Carlos, my new system is not inexpensive. I did not buy any of my components to boost self-esteem or to gain acceptance in some group. My audio friends hardly ever come over to listen anymore. For me, this is a solitary hobby and I made my choices purely for my personal desire for a particular type of sound and to enjoy my music collection and relax. This is not a social hobby for me nor one that involves status.

I do have a certain amount of pride of ownership, because I selected it carefully and realize it would be hard to replace much of the gear, regardless of cost. I think there are too many individual approaches to the hobby to generalize about the people who pursue it. We have a pretty small community here on this forum, and just look at how little we can agree on.

I do agree with the sentiment that some of the prices are becoming ridiculous.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

that cartridge price

We see it most commonly in some cables and fuses. And now we see even a phono cartridge, from a highly respected audio company, listed for $1million (phono pre included).

this information is incorrect. more in the $50k--$75k range with phono.

not defending that, just let's not get too carried away.

in your defense, you are not the first one to post that. not sure where that info was posted that caused the misunderstanding, but it's wrong.

 

[Audire]

With all the high prices there still companies that have somewhat reasonable pricing for exceptional gear. Just today I was looking at some Maggie’s. Though I’ll probably be going with some Alsyvox speakers, the Maggie’s still looked very interesting.

This said, sooner or latter some of these companies will price themselves out of the market. I just desire the best sound at a reasonable price (we all do). I don’t think you need to spend a million to get that, only $999,999.99 Seriously, one may spend a lot less and out perform many of these million dollar status audio systems.

 

[microstrip]

I agree with what you stated. I have been in the hobby for over 35 years.

I can say over 45, so I should probably be envious of you.

High-End Audio has always been an expensive hobby but the current state of affairs and pricing is not only detached from reality but frankly ridiculous. It makes the industry’s consumers look gullible to the trappings of other luxury items: vanity, pride of ownership and all the other shallow minded & pretentiousness associated with insecure individuals with low self esteem longing for acceptance.

We should not detach the ultra expensive from performance. Some - not all surely - extremely expensive items have a level of performance that no cheaper alternatives approach. Although I can not buy all my system in the ultra expensive I have the privilege of knowing a few people who own such systems and I can tell you they are the opposite you describe - discrete music lovers that hate being in the limelight and love the music their systems can provide. No way they have low esteem, look for acceptance and are insecure. But surely they have more money that the average audiophile. IMO the more interesting part of audiophile life does not happen in youtube or audioforums.

Should the fortunate audiophiles who can afford the best of the best be deprived from top performance because a few people show the characteristics you refer?

 

[Lee]

that cartridge price

this information is incorrect. more in the $50k--$75k range with phono.

not defending that, just let's not get too carried away.

in your defense, you are not the first one to post that. not sure where that info was posted that caused the misunderstanding, but it's wrong.

In the name of music : listen first, measure later | darTZeel Official website

DarTZeel products reflect the passion and exuberance of Hervé Delétraz, from a young age, for music reproduction. We beg to differ. Listen first, measure later. Never the other way around. That’s the way we design our products.

neverheardbefore.com

 

[Audire]

Should the fortunate audiophiles who can afford the best of the best be deprived from top performance because a few people show the characteristics you refer?

They shouldn’t be deprived, but neither should they be taken advantage of!

 

[Audire]

In the name of music : listen first, measure later | darTZeel Official website

DarTZeel products reflect the passion and exuberance of Hervé Delétraz, from a young age, for music reproduction. We beg to differ. Listen first, measure later. Never the other way around. That’s the way we design our products.

neverheardbefore.com

1'000'000.01 in Swiss Franks is app. 1,129,684.38 in the U.S.That is outright robbery!

 

[microstrip]

Carlos, my new system is not inexpensive. I did not buy any of my components to boost self-esteem or to gain acceptance in some group. My audio friends hardly ever come over to listen anymore. For me, this is a solitary hobby and I made my choices purely for my personal desire for a particular type of sound and to enjoy my music collection and relax. This is not a social hobby for me nor one that involves status.

I do have a certain amount of pride of ownership, because I selected it carefully and realize it would be hard to replace much of the gear, regardless of cost. I think there are too many individual approaches to the hobby to generalize about the people who pursue it. We have a pretty small community here on this forum, and just look at how little we can agree on.

Peter,

I would say the same, except probably it is not a solitary hobby for me - just coming from a dinner with a few happy audiophile friends. Pride of ownership is extremely complex, not easily addressed in a few words.

I do agree with the sentiment that some of the prices are becoming ridiculous.

Considering the high price of our own esteemed gear I can not see why the prices per se can be ridiculous. I can consider that value for money of same items is low, approaching ridiculous in my perspective, but it is probably my biased limitations on understanding the performance of expensive fuses and some high price grounding systems - things I do not care for.

 

[microstrip]

They shouldn’t be deprived, but neither should they be taken advantage of!

Can you be more explicit?

 

[Another Johnson]

million dollar phono cartridge - Google Search

OCD HiFi Guy posted this about a new $1M DarTZeel cartridge.

I don’t understand why anyone who doesn’t want to spend that much cares.

If someone does want to buy it, why is that anyone else’s business?

 

[Audire]

Can you be more explicit?

If one can spend less than a million and get quality sound (and they can) then they should avoid the ripoffs from these other vendors. …

 

[Republicoftexas69]

It is your money, spend it how you see fit. I agree prices can be quite expensive.

 

[Carlos269]

Carlos, my new system is not inexpensive. I did not buy any of my components to boost self-esteem or to gain acceptance in some group. My audio friends hardly ever come over to listen anymore. For me, this is a solitary hobby and I made my choices purely for my personal desire for a particular type of sound and to enjoy my music collection and relax. This is not a social hobby for me nor one that involves status.

I do have a certain amount of pride of ownership, because I selected it carefully and realize it would be hard to replace much of the gear, regardless of cost. I think there are too many individual approaches to the hobby to generalize about the people who pursue it. We have a pretty small community here on this forum, and just look at how little we can agree on.

I do agree with the sentiment that some of the prices are becoming ridiculous.

Peter, I believe you. I’m the same way. Every listening session is for my personal enjoyment. I do value my equipment as most components are unique, one of a kind, or custom built for me.

We should not detach the ultra expensive from performance.

There lies the fallacy; thinking that cost correlates with performance. You have been around the block but I think that you have lived your audiophile life in the mainstream. I have experienced the more esoteric, underground and DIY/Custom/Bespoke factions of the hobby and can tell you and show you that the cutting edge of high-end audio is not with the “extremely expensive items” advertised in magazines, displayed at shows, or discussed here on this forum, but with the experts and explorers in the DIYAudio community. You would be surprised how many of today’s sweethearts in mainstream audio are simply monetizing ideas, concepts and circuits that originated in the DIYAudio community.The latest technologies and circuits designs are there and being discussed and progressed there. I own a great deal of these products and can tell you that in a number of cases there are no commercial equivalent sonically. This is how high-end audio was in the 70’s, 80’s and early 90’s before greed set in and took over the industry.

It is not about money, as I’m sure that your wealthy friends have lots of it, but I can assure you that none of them have the awareness or knowledge of what is available out there and what is really cutting edge as I do, and I’m not alone in this respect. There is a whole world of extraordinary audio equipment out there than what is discussed in this forum, reviewed and reported in audio magazines, or shown at Munich and similar audio shows. Some of us are hardcore audiophiles and some are just living in the mainstream. You would be surprised by what you and your wealthy friends might find if you really took this hobby as serious as I do.

 

[jbrrp1]

Regarding the DartZeel offering that Wil started this thread with, I truly took the 1mm CHF cartridge as a bit of humor. I think Herve is poking a bit of fun at just this dynamic.

 

[wil]

that cartridge price

this information is incorrect. more in the $50k--$75k range with phono.

not defending that, just let's not get too carried away.

in your defense, you are not the first one to post that. not sure where that info was posted that caused the misunderstanding, but it's wrong.

The website listing the cart price has been up for a least a week. If it’s some kind of phony site, I’m surprised some kind of denial hasn’t been posted. I hope it is wrong.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

The website listing the cart price has been up for a least a week. If it’s some kind of phony site, I’m surprised some kind of denial hasn’t been posted. I hope it is wrong.

please link the site. thanks.

 

[jbrrp1]

The website listing the cart price has been up for a least a week. If it’s some kind of phony site, I’m surprised some kind of denial hasn’t been posted. I hope it is wrong.

Oh, I think the first two offerings are the real deal. The third is a bit of a "wink", as it were, IMO.

Mike, here's the link:

https://neverheardbefore.com/