Etsuro Urushi Bordeaux in the house

[jazdoc]

@jazdoc Do you find Fuuga signature contrasting (compare to Bordeaux) enough to keep it around.

The Fuuga is a great all around SOTA cartridge. In my system, it's chief advantage is that it does everything really well and has no sins of commission (which in my opinion are usually worse than sins of omission). To use a baseball analogy, the Fuuga is the Garrett Anderson of high end cartridges. Not hall of famer but a perennial All Star. You can listen for long stretches without fatigue and if the Fuuga was my final cartridge, I would be very happy.

The Bordeaux and Gold share a family 'sound'. In my system, meticulous set up can yield spectacular results. Both are more dynamic and 'quicker' than the Fuuga, which by comparison has a slightly more 'tubey' presentation. While the Gold definitely has more LF extension and texture than the Bordeaux, I'm not sure I prefer the Gold to the Bordeaux. Paraphrasing a recent visitor "the Bordeaux is for fans of the more expensive van den Hul cartridge sound who may be put off by a perceived aggressive top end".

Hope this helps.

 

[Salectric]

Not to be argumentative, but I definitely noticed a difference between 1:10 and 1:15/1:14. I was using a 1:10 and it was OK. Mike generously let me borrow his 1:15 and it was definitely better. Dave was the one who suggested 1:14 was best for my system. YMMV.

Interesting. I respect your opinion that the differences in your case were significant. In my trials, there were differences to be sure but I thought they were minor and easy to ignore. There were far greater differences between different brands of SUTs regardless of ratios.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

@Mike Lavigne Since you have heard both Bordeaux and Fuuga and own Etsuro Gold, would you say Gold would be a better choice instead of owning both Fuuga and Bordeaux. I am wondering if buying Gold makes sense now and try something else down the road. Appreciate your input as always.

short answer; yes.

not all Etsuro Gold's are created equal, nor are all Bordeaux's created equal. PM me and i can elaborate.

i've not had jazdoc's Bordeaux in my system to directly compare to my current Gold (i've owned -4- Etsuro Gold's). nor have i heard that Bordeau directly compared to jazdoc's Gold, which i use to own. i do have a feel for how jazdoc's Gold compares to the one i have now.

so basically cannot say for sure, but guess i choose my Gold. best moving coil cartridge i have heard.

that said, what i heard last weekend at jazdoc's was very impressive.

 

[jazdoc]

Interesting. I respect your opinion that the differences in your case were significant. In my trials, there were differences to be sure but I thought they were minor and easy to ignore. There were far greater differences between different brands of SUTs regardless of ratios.

I wonder if there is some magic synergy between the EMIA SUT and Jeffrey's Kahn phonostage/linestage combo? For educational purposes, what SUT(s) do you prefer?

 

[zebo67]

The Fuuga is a great all around SOTA cartridge. In my system, it's chief advantage is that it does everything really well and has no sins of commission (which in my opinion are usually worse than sins of omission). To use a baseball analogy, the Fuuga is the Garrett Anderson of high end cartridges. Not hall of famer but a perennial All Star. You can listen for long stretches without fatigue and if the Fuuga was my final cartridge, I would be very happy.

The Bordeaux and Gold share a family 'sound'. In my system, meticulous set up can yield spectacular results. Both are more dynamic and 'quicker' than the Fuuga, which by comparison has a slightly more 'tubey' presentation. While the Gold definitely has more LF extension and texture than the Bordeaux, I'm not sure I prefer the Gold to the Bordeaux. Paraphrasing a recent visitor "the Bordeaux is for fans of the more expensive van den Hul cartridge sound who may be put off by a perceived aggressive top end".

Hope this helps.

Thank you for the detailed explanation, I appreciate it. I was self-doubting myself after placing an order for Bordeaux. Based on your explanation and @Mike Lavigne feedback, will stick with Bordeaux for now!

 

[TheAudioAssociation]

Thank you for the detailed explanation, I appreciate it. I was self-doubting myself after placing an order for Bordeaux. Based on your explanation and @Mike Lavigne feedback, will stick with Bordeaux for now!

@zebo67 - You’ve made a solid choice that will bring you tons of enjoyment. As jazdoc mentioned, take your time dialing it in and the rewards will follow. Can’t wait for your impressions! Enjoy!

 

[Salectric]

I wonder if there is some magic synergy between the EMIA SUT and Jeffrey's Kahn phonostage/linestage combo? For educational purposes, what SUT(s) do you prefer?

I prefer vintage Audio Innovations T2 transformers mounted in an Audio Innovations S1000 chassis. Audio Innovations is the UK company Peter Quortrup was associated with before he left to form Audio Note.

The S1000 has Kondo silver wiring. I eliminated the switching function so it’s hardwired for 1:25, and I replaced the RCA jacks with Audio Note jacks.

 

[sbo6]

The Fuuga is a great all around SOTA cartridge. In my system, it's chief advantage is that it does everything really well and has no sins of commission (which in my opinion are usually worse than sins of omission). To use a baseball analogy, the Fuuga is the Garrett Anderson of high end cartridges. Not hall of famer but a perennial All Star. You can listen for long stretches without fatigue and if the Fuuga was my final cartridge, I would be very happy.

The Bordeaux and Gold share a family 'sound'. In my system, meticulous set up can yield spectacular results. Both are more dynamic and 'quicker' than the Fuuga, which by comparison has a slightly more 'tubey' presentation. While the Gold definitely has more LF extension and texture than the Bordeaux, I'm not sure I prefer the Gold to the Bordeaux. Paraphrasing a recent visitor "the Bordeaux is for fans of the more expensive van den Hul cartridge sound who may be put off by a perceived aggressive top end".

Hope this helps.

I think I'm experiencing what you and your visitor are - an increased high frequency output with my new Etsuro Gold. As amazingly dynamic, articulate and massive a sound stage that this cart is capable of, there seems to be some incompatibility with my Kuzma 4 point. I have a Slagle SUT coming, hopefully that helps ameliorate some of the problem, fingers crossed.

 

[DetroitVinylRob]

I think I'm experiencing what you and your visitor are - an increased high frequency output with my new Etsuro Gold. As amazingly dynamic, articulate and massive a sound stage that this cart is capable of, there seems to be some incompatibility with my Kuzma 4 point. I have a Slagle SUT coming, hopefully that helps ameliorate some of the problem, fingers crossed.

It’s been a minute in your adventures. Good listening I would imagine. Would love to hear more of your thoughts and observations. What happened with Dave’s SUT? And any additional refinement on your thoughts of the 4 point (in)compatibility?

 

[sbo6]

It’s been a minute in your adventures. Good listening I would imagine. Would love to hear more of your thoughts and observations. What happened with Dave’s SUT? And any additional refinement on your thoughts of the 4 point (in)compatibility?

The Slagle SUT made little difference and I prefer the Allnic built - in SUTs.

Ultimately, I checked and rechecked any and every setup parameter imaginable with the Etsuro Gold to no avail. I even contacted Franc Kuzma and while he was very responsive and offered his advice, ultimately, I believe it's an incompatibility of the arm and the Etsuro Gold. I also contacted Etsuro who dolled out very general advice, a bit disappointing IMO. I moved on to an Airtight Opus one, which, with a rough setup sounded excellent and even across the frequency spectrum (no high - end tilt up). After suspension break - in recommended via the dealer and optimum setup it sounds simply amazing to my ears.

My next move would be to the Allnic H8000 or the H1000, maybe the CH Precision, although I hear mixed likes / dislikes about it. I'm no rush, I'm enjoying this vinyl setup very much.

 

[zebo67]

The Slagle SUT made little difference and I prefer the Allnic built - in SUTs.

Ultimately, I checked and rechecked any and every setup parameter imaginable with the Etsuro Gold to no avail. I even contacted Franc Kuzma and while he was very responsive and offered his advice, ultimately, I believe it's an incompatibility of the arm and the Etsuro Gold. I also contacted Etsuro who dolled out very general advice, a bit disappointing IMO. I moved on to an Airtight Opus one, which, with a rough setup sounded excellent and even across the frequency spectrum (no high - end tilt up). After suspension break - in recommended via the dealer and optimum setup it sounds simply amazing to my ears.

My next move would be to the Allnic H8000 or the H1000, maybe the CH Precision, although I hear mixed likes / dislikes about it. I'm no rush, I'm enjoying this vinyl setup very much.

Sorry to hear about the incompatibility between Etsuro + Kuzma. I would like to say, Reed + Etsuro = great synergy. I currently own Bordeaux and likely step up to Gold in very near future.

 

[sbo6]

Sorry to hear about the incompatibility between Etsuro + Kuzma. I would like to say, Reed + Etsuro = great synergy. I currently own Bordeaux and likely step up to Gold in very near future.

Nice! I've heard the Bordeaux is not as finicky as the Gold, FWIW.

 

[G T Audio]

The Slagle SUT made little difference and I prefer the Allnic built - in SUTs.

Ultimately, I checked and rechecked any and every setup parameter imaginable with the Etsuro Gold to no avail. I even contacted Franc Kuzma and while he was very responsive and offered his advice, ultimately, I believe it's an incompatibility of the arm and the Etsuro Gold. I also contacted Etsuro who dolled out very general advice, a bit disappointing IMO. I moved on to an Airtight Opus one, which, with a rough setup sounded excellent and even across the frequency spectrum (no high - end tilt up). After suspension break - in recommended via the dealer and optimum setup it sounds simply amazing to my ears.

My next move would be to the Allnic H8000 or the H1000, maybe the CH Precision, although I hear mixed likes / dislikes about it. I'm no rush, I'm enjoying this vinyl setup very much.

I haven't checked the tonearm/cartridge specs for compatibility, but you might want to investigate the Brinkmann tonearms. I use a 10.5 on a Dohmann Helix 2 MK 3 and that sounds superb with a whole range of cartridges. The tonearm is also exquisitely made and finished unlike a lot of modern tonearms made today.

 

[DetroitVinylRob]

Sorry to hear about the incompatibility between Etsuro + Kuzma. I would like to say, Reed + Etsuro = great synergy. I currently own Bordeaux and likely step up to Gold in very near future.

Yep, agree. My Reed P3-12 and Bordeaux are dancing a serious tango together. I feel this is a lovely romance. Nuanced and tuneful

 

[Massimo66]

The Slagle SUT made little difference and I prefer the Allnic built - in SUTs.

Ultimately, I checked and rechecked any and every setup parameter imaginable with the Etsuro Gold to no avail. I even contacted Franc Kuzma and while he was very responsive and offered his advice, ultimately, I believe it's an incompatibility of the arm and the Etsuro Gold. I also contacted Etsuro who dolled out very general advice, a bit disappointing IMO. I moved on to an Airtight Opus one, which, with a rough setup sounded excellent and even across the frequency spectrum (no high - end tilt up). After suspension break - in recommended via the dealer and optimum setup it sounds simply amazing to my ears.

My next move would be to the Allnic H8000 or the H1000, maybe the CH Precision, although I hear mixed likes / dislikes about it. I'm no rush, I'm enjoying this vinyl setup very much.

Before switching to the H 8000 or the H 10,000, try changing the SUTs of the 7000. The silver ones are available. On my 7000, I mounted the 8000 as an external SUT (when I bought it, the internal silver SUTs were not available as an option and replacement). With this addition, I was able to make a comparison between the H 7000 and the H 8000. Previously, the difference was notable, but with the addition of the external SUT, the difference is really small. What we noticed is that, in any case, with the 8000, it seems to have a greater thrust reserve, which does not justify the price difference between the two Phono preamps, at least for me and also for many of my friends, including the owner of the H 8000 with whom we made the comparisons.

 

[bonzo75]

Before switching to the H 8000 or the H 10,000, try changing the SUTs of the 7000. The silver ones are available. On my 7000, I mounted the 8000 as an external SUT (when I bought it, the internal silver SUTs were not available as an option and replacement). With this addition, I was able to make a comparison between the H 7000 and the H 8000. Previously, the difference was notable, but with the addition of the external SUT, the difference is really small. What we noticed is that, in any case, with the 8000, it seems to have a greater thrust reserve, which does not justify the price difference between the two Phono preamps, at least for me and also for many of my friends, including the owner of the H 8000 with whom we made the comparisons.

Hi what do you mean by thrust reserve? Is this higher dynamic range when required?

 

[Argonaut]

Perhaps of interest to folks , courtesy of the Late Peter Breuninger :

 

[zebo67]

Before switching to the H 8000 or the H 10,000, try changing the SUTs of the 7000. The silver ones are available. On my 7000, I mounted the 8000 as an external SUT (when I bought it, the internal silver SUTs were not available as an option and replacement). With this addition, I was able to make a comparison between the H 7000 and the H 8000. Previously, the difference was notable, but with the addition of the external SUT, the difference is really small. What we noticed is that, in any case, with the 8000, it seems to have a greater thrust reserve, which does not justify the price difference between the two Phono preamps, at least for me and also for many of my friends, including the owner of the H 8000 with whom we made the comparisons.

I’d high hopes for H-6500 in my modest system. In head to head comparison, H-6500 was not day and night better than a $1K tube phono. Maybe 7000, 8000 or 10000 are better but I wonder how much better?

 

[sbo6]

Before switching to the H 8000 or the H 10,000, try changing the SUTs of the 7000. The silver ones are available. On my 7000, I mounted the 8000 as an external SUT (when I bought it, the internal silver SUTs were not available as an option and replacement). With this addition, I was able to make a comparison between the H 7000 and the H 8000. Previously, the difference was notable, but with the addition of the external SUT, the difference is really small. What we noticed is that, in any case, with the 8000, it seems to have a greater thrust reserve, which does not justify the price difference between the two Phono preamps, at least for me and also for many of my friends, including the owner of the H 8000 with whom we made the comparisons.

Thanks. I thought I had read that the silver SUTs can be purchased separately from Allnic and user - installed (if you have the soldering skills, which I do). Are you or anyone else aware if this is true? Guess I can ask Allnic too.

 

[Massimo66]

Hi what do you mean by thrust reserve? Is this higher dynamic range when required?

YEs The soundstage was even more stable, and especially in the low range, there was greater propulsive force. On rock, the music took on greater authority and solidity; on symphonic music, in full orchestral performance, there was greater separation between the instruments. Obviously, I'm talking about small differences, and it was all more a matter of a sensation that you had to listen to certain passages several times to be confirmed. It's probably all linked to a more powerful and high-performance power supply, but the 7000 was there biting the 8000's ass. The cartridges used for the listening session were the Dava FC1 A and the MSL Sig. Platinum. We also tried an Etsuro Bordeaux, but the remaining time didn't allow us to make a serious evaluation.