DSD comparison to PCM.

U47

New Member
Apr 23, 2010
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Portland, Oregon
www.reeltapes.net
#1
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Jul 25, 2012
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NY
#2
I'm the first viewer! I'm waiting for Part 2 and 3.
 

jkeny

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Feb 10, 2012
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Ireland
#3
So, just trying to follow what is being said on the video - what we are seeing are FFTs from a 192KHz PCM file upconverted to DSD & DXD.
What seems to be said on the video is that the mics have some issues up around 80Khz where there is distortion & it results in some sibilance heard in the voices.
The DXD shows this 80KHz peak modulating on the FFT.
The DSD seems to have a high level of noise (dither noise) from 60KHz up & the 80KHz peak is masked by this noise but still seems to be producing sibilance from the playback.
There's also mention of the eating up of headroom that occurs in DSD by reason of it's dither noise levels.

Is this about right?

So this dither noise & consequent reduction in headroom is a downside (does it curtail dynamics?) - is there any upsides to using DSD?
 
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MarinJim

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Feb 2, 2011
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#4

MarinJim

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Feb 2, 2011
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#6

mep

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 21, 2010
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#7
Oh, really? Because you say so? I am not impressed, sorry.

That's OK, I didn't ask you to be impressed. And if I was the only one that hears what I hear and the only one that was reporting what I'm saying, your retort would have more meaning than it now carries-at least to me.
 

MarinJim

New Member
Feb 2, 2011
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#8
That's OK, I didn't ask you to be impressed. And if I was the only one that hears what I hear and the only one that was reporting what I'm saying, your retort would have more meaning than it now carries-at least to me.
Who cares? Really.
 

mep

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 21, 2010
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#11
My panties aren't all twisted over the debate. I have made up my mind on which format sounds better, and it's not PCM. It would be helpful and more meaningful if people who proclaim PCM superior to DSD actually owned DSD files and the hardware/software to play them back in their own system and could provide a rational for their preference. I'm not seeing that now.
 

mep

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 21, 2010
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#13
You've made up your mind and yet you harangue others for being 'close-minded' (sic). I find the irony amuses me no end :p
The *irony* shouldn't amuse you because I came to my conclusions based on listening to all of the formats in my home. I didn't come to my conclusions based on hearing one format while looking at a spec sheet for the other formats and making a decision on which one I thought sounded best.
 
Feb 11, 2012
1,286
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Hangzhou, China
#14
But oddly its still amusing me. So your rationalisations aren't working!

I see you're posting up about listening to DSD vs PCM on the vinyl thread - I consider that's OT for there but seems fair game on here. I didn't form my view of DSD from spec sheets either, I read Stan Lipshitz's paper shortly after it came out but bought SACDs for quite some time after that before listening convinced me it was a waste of time. I no longer buy SACDs.
 
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mep

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 21, 2010
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#15
I would understand your point of view and your amusement if I was one of those people who was married to a single format (digital or vinyl) and proclaimed my singular choice as superior to all others without hearing anything but my single format. Such is not the case with me. I would like to think that I'm making an informed judgement based on experience vice worrying that baby has a mess in its diaper and I only have one baby and one diaper and I'm trying to convince people that the baby's diaper doesn't stink.

It would be more helpful and more meaningful if we heard from more people who listen to all formats and hear about the conclusions they have drawn vice people who only have one format and feel compelled to carry the flag for it.
 

mep

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 21, 2010
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#17
Seems you're rehashing the old saws, to wit 'married' and 'compelled'. I can't see how to release you from those inaccurate perceptions if you don't wish to do it for yourself. By all means let's hear from others.
By all means, bring it on and let's hear what other people think based on their experience.
 

Bruce B

WBF Founding Member, Pro Audio Production Member
Apr 26, 2010
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Seattle, WA
www.pugetsoundstudios.com
#18
I didn't form my view of DSD from spec sheets either, I read Stan Lipshitz's paper shortly after it came out but bought SACDs for quite some time after that before listening convinced me it was a waste of time. I no longer buy SACDs.
Well there's the problem. You are listening to the converters and filters in SACD players.

Go get a bunch of DSD files and stream them through a "decent" DAC and report what you hear. Until then, we'll just keep on listening to our DSD files, Analog tape and vinyl......
 
Feb 11, 2012
1,286
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Hangzhou, China
#19
Well there's the problem. You are listening to the converters and filters in SACD players.
Well I do agree there Bruce. In fact I took the lid off one of my SACD players (Pioneer) and found its using a PCM DAC from BB. But that argument cuts both ways - when you have listened to PCM your DAC has been doing a conversion too - rendering it into a noise-shaped low-bit signal.

Go get a bunch of DSD files and stream them through a "decent" DAC and report what you hear. Until then, we'll just keep on listening to our DSD files, Analog tape and vinyl......
You'd have to convince me on a technical basis what constitutes a 'decent' DAC, pretty hard I reckon... :p
 

Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
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#20
Well there's the problem. You are listening to the converters and filters in SACD players.

Go get a bunch of DSD files and stream them through a "decent" DAC and report what you hear. Until then, we'll just keep on listening to our DSD files, Analog tape and vinyl......
+1
 

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