Digital that sounds like analog

[Gregadd]

Moved to online music video thread.
http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?2292-Music-Videos-The-Greats!&p=159839#post159839

 

[opus111]

Not all DG discs are recorded equally - here's the first one I've come across which has sucky dynamics. Hilary Hahn and Eiji Oue - the recording credits cite Emil Berliner Studios but this one sounds squashed for sure. The violin has none of the bite and 'guttiness' (for want of a better word) that I've found on plenty of other violin recordings, including from DG. Give it a miss if you're a lover of dynamics.

http://www.amazon.com/Paganini-Violin-Concerto-No-Spohr/dp/B000G04RKS/

As a contrast, still DG, this one of Mozart Violin Sonatas by Anne-Sophie Mutter is distinctly better, but still has some softening to my ears : http://www.amazon.com/Mozart-Violin-Sonatas-Wolfgang-Amadeus/dp/B000GETWQ8/

Better than both of these is an old analog recording from 1970, Yehudi Menuhin and Wilhelm Kempff, Beethoven. This is one of my fave violin discs - http://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Complete-Violin-Sonatas-Germany/dp/B000026CEI/

 

[LL21]

Have you heard the Appponyi Quartet Handel Quartets? listening now...very beautiful tone on strings.

Not all DG discs are recorded equally - here's the first one I've come across which has sucky dynamics. Hilary Hahn and Eiji Oue - the recording credits cite Emil Berliner Studios but this one sounds squashed for sure. The violin has none of the bite and 'guttiness' (for want of a better word) that I've found on plenty of other violin recordings, including from DG. Give it a miss if you're a lover of dynamics.

http://www.amazon.com/Paganini-Violin-Concerto-No-Spohr/dp/B000G04RKS/

As a contrast, still DG, this one of Mozart Violin Sonatas by Anne-Sophie Mutter is distinctly better, but still has some softening to my ears : http://www.amazon.com/Mozart-Violin-Sonatas-Wolfgang-Amadeus/dp/B000GETWQ8/

Better than both of these is an old analog recording from 1970, Yehudi Menuhin and Wilhelm Kempff, Beethoven. This is one of my fave violin discs - http://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Complete-Violin-Sonatas-Germany/dp/B000026CEI/

 

[opus111]

Prototype DAC (which I'm going to call Ozone) sitting atop one of my speakers. The transformer is remoted, there are a couple of multi-segmented common-mode chokes in the pic which I'm experimenting with to see if they improve the performance of the LC filters.



Subjectively it would be fair to say this DAC is the closest I've heard to no DAC at all in that the recordings I've been listening to are laid bare, warts and all.

 

[Bruce B]

Prototype DAC (which I'm going to call Ozone) sitting atop one of my speakers. The transformer is remoted, there are a couple of multi-segmented common-mode chokes in the pic which I'm experimenting with to see if they improve the performance of the LC filters.
Subjectively it would be fair to say this DAC is the closest I've heard to no DAC at all in that the recordings I've been listening to are laid bare, warts and all.

Can't find your system/room profile. Do you have a link? Thanks....

 

[opus111]

I don't have a system/room profile, that might be why - my setup being non-standard. If you're interested in the rest of the system, its all custom except for the disc spinner which is a $30 DVD player. I sometimes use a QA550 wav file player as source too when I need really low noise. You can find details of the amp customisations on the thread below, it also shows the speakers.

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...-frugal-philes&p=143299&viewfull=1#post143299

 

[opus111]

BIS has always been a reliable label for me both for performances and SQ. This disc continues the trend, featuring excellent tonality of flute and harp unencumbered by noise modulation and natural dynamics - http://www.amazon.com/Wolfgang-Amadeus-Complete-Orchestra--Featuring/dp/B001VMOR5U/

 

[opus111]

I received the DAC-AH DACs over the weekend so just had a quick A/B comparison between the Ozone and the first DAC-AH, before I set to to modify it. Right out of the box its got only a few weaknesses when listening to the Sharon Bezaly recording. Noticeable is the traditional NOS roll off which attenuates the overtones on solo flute. Then the little nuances of fluteness aren't so obvious, there's less airiness and also on the very highest notes there's no purity of sparkle. Soundstage also gets bunched up towards the front, considerably less depth and overall bloom. Still not a bad performer overall considering I acquired two of them for under $250 shipped.

 

[LL21]

BIS has always been a reliable label for me both for performances and SQ. This disc continues the trend, featuring excellent tonality of flute and harp unencumbered by noise modulation and natural dynamics - http://www.amazon.com/Wolfgang-Amadeus-Complete-Orchestra--Featuring/dp/B001VMOR5U/

I like the Suzuki Bach recorded by BIS.

 

[LL21]

I like the Suzuki Bach recorded by BIS.

Hi Opus,

Someone was sharing with me their observations about the AN Fifth Element NOS DAC...and specifically they felt the M9 preamp being put inside helped in, as well as heavy silver transformers. Any thoughts on this?

 

[opus111]

Not really enough information to go on - I'd need more details about what they were using to make apposite remarks. Having a pre inside makes sense in that its one fewer box and interconnect and mains cable required, can't be a bad thing!

I bought a big batch of CDs yesterday - a large number of the DG ones turned out to lack dynamics, I'm not going to mention them here. But this one is worth mentioning as an anomaly. Its Sony and says 'DSD' and 'SBM' on the recording credits (2001 recording, MA, USA venue) but it has astonishingly good dynamics and tonality, some of the best I've ever heard. The explosive opening of the Poulenc sonata quite took my breath away as I'm unfamiliar with this piece Highly recommended.

http://www.amazon.com/French-Violin-Sonatas-Midori/dp/B00006GOA7/

 

[LL21]

Not really enough information to go on - I'd need more details about what they were using to make apposite remarks. Having a pre inside makes sense in that its one fewer box and interconnect and mains cable required, can't be a bad thing!

I bought a big batch of CDs yesterday - a large number of the DG ones turned out to lack dynamics, I'm not going to mention them here. But this one is worth mentioning as an anomaly. Its Sony and says 'DSD' and 'SBM' on the recording credits (2001 recording, MA, USA venue) but it has astonishingly good dynamics and tonality, some of the best I've ever heard. The explosive opening of the Poulenc sonata quite took my breath away as I'm unfamiliar with this piece Highly recommended.

http://www.amazon.com/French-Violin-Sonatas-Midori/dp/B00006GOA7/

thanks...actually they stuck the pre in...but removed attenuation...used more as a signal amplifier or something? not sure. In any event, i will try to send across some classical titles i like.

at the moment listening to Bill Evans concert in Paris...2 CDs...excellent recording.

 

[opus111]

As its Christmas Day afternoon here, my thoughts traditionally turn (since early childhood) to James Bond. Christmas Day afternoon wouldn't be the same in UK if there were no Bond film to watch while opening presents. In the absence of presents and a TV, here's a worthy substitute - http://www.amazon.com/Best-Bond-James-Bond-CD/dp/B001FQHQRI/. These recordings all have great dynamics and bring back the movie memories well, at least for me

And as a complete change of mood, try this disc of Haydn Piano Trios with Andras Schiff. Stunningly dynamic - I've had it in my collection for many years and had not realized just how clear this recording really was. First rate Decca - reference class recording (music not to be sniffed at either)!

http://www.amazon.com/Haydn-Piano-Trios-Vol-Australia/dp/B0007MR2CU/

 

[LL21]

As its Christmas Day afternoon here, my thoughts traditionally turn (since early childhood) to James Bond. Christmas Day afternoon wouldn't be the same in UK if there were no Bond film to watch while opening presents. In the absence of presents and a TV, here's a worthy substitute - http://www.amazon.com/Best-Bond-James-Bond-CD/dp/B001FQHQRI/. These recordings all have great dynamics and bring back the movie memories well, at least for me

And as a complete change of mood, try this disc of Haydn Piano Trios with Andras Schiff. Stunningly dynamic - I've had it in my collection for many years and had not realized just how clear this recording really was. First rate Decca - reference class recording (music not to be sniffed at either)!

http://www.amazon.com/Haydn-Piano-Trios-Vol-Australia/dp/B0007MR2CU/

Nice! I have the Beaux Arts Trio version of the Haydn Piano trios...7 CDS of one of my top 3 favorite classical composers (Bach, Handel, Haydn).

 

[A.wayne]

They do but they're disappearing rapidly. From TI, the only audio conventional (multibit) one left in production is the PCM1704 and I don't think that one is staying primarily because of demand in audio. ADI used to have AD1865 up until a few months ago, that's gone obsolete now. ADI recommend a D-S part as replacement for this.



When I was referring to the older designs I meant multibit ones, not DS. Both Sabre (ESS) and Wolfson only make DS, as does Cirrus. When they were Crystal though, and this is going back to the 80s, Cirrus made some really nice multibit ADCs. I still have a couple of their 1MHz, 12bit parts in my box which I'm tempted to press into audio duty together with some DSP



The multibit SDs don't have R2R architecture so that's one big way they have lower glitch. They glitch in rather different ways in that they're pure CMOS so are crowbarring the supply on every clock edge - the glitches are on the power supply when then feeds through to the output.



I'm not one of those who likes the sound of LP - I don't have any, sold off years ago. When CD came out I didn't notice the noise modulation imperfections I notice now, but I did love the improvement it gave me on piano over LP. I found LP just couldn't do the dynamics of piano well enough. LP lovers bear in mind my TT wasn't an expensive one (Rega Planar 3). The best piano LP I ever owned in terms of SQ was a Nimbus direct-to-disk of Bernard Roberts playing the Diabelli Variations, however my TT/arm/cartridge could not track this without gross distortion. So I really appreciated CD's freedom from hash on piano.

My take is that vinyl lovers love it for its significantly lower noise modulation than digital. For which we still do not have standardized measurements. But absence of measurements is no indication than an effect doesn't exist

A friend brought his copy of carmina Burana (Telarc) cd and compared it to the LP version, It was pathetic, 5 times less dynamic than the Lp , it did have less surface noise , but he did admit to it being inferior to the Lp ....

Being the digital guy he said i had bad digital ....

 

[opus111]

I don't know the recording technology used on that particular disc, but if it was a more recent TELARC they use DSD and 5 times less dynamic (in dB, so 10dB instead of 50dB) sounds about right. If it was from the previous millenium then their dynamics were amongst the best. Bad digital is the norm nowadays (unless you have NOS) but if you have DSD on the disc then there's no DAC which will improve that

Here's an example of an entirely decent (earlier) TELARC - track 4 especially is an extreme toe-tapper: http://www.amazon.com/Mancinis-Hits-Henry-Mancini/dp/B000003CV9/

 

[opus111]

Because showing the mods in sufficient detail for y'all to copy will require a lot of pics, I've started a new thread for those mods so as not to make this thread unwieldy. Its here : http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?9121-The-Ozone-layer-modding-the-Lite-DAC-AH. Do please continue to post questions and comments in this thread too though, that thread isn't intended to replace this one

 

[opus111]

After so many of the CDs I just bought (DG label mostly) disappointed dynamics-wise, its refreshing to rediscover one of the old ones that delivers the goods - http://www.amazon.com/Bizet-Carmen-Suite-LArlesienne/dp/B00000E4PF/. Normally Bizet's two l'Arlesienne Suites get paired up with just the Carmen Suite, but here for a bonus you get Offenbach as well

 

[opus111]

Another visit to the CD emporium and I've fallen in love with this DG disc of Tchaikovsky's 1st Piano Concerto straight out of the box. I want it on repeat for the next week...

http://www.amazon.com/Tchaikovsky-Piano-Concerto-No-1/dp/B000W99IIY/

The third Amazon reviewer hits the nail on the head - unsurpassed splendour - Richter's playing here is just incredible - power and poetry, majesty and mystery. And that the recording is truly an excellent one is just the icing on the cake.

 

[jkeny]

Thank you Opus for these reference disks - this information is nearly as valuable as the technical information
I will purchase these disks now & hopefully hear what you hear, in time!