David Karmeli’s Bionor/Lamm/AS-2000 Audio System

[PeterA]

Some sadly deluded individuals have been so brainwashed into believing that the only individual on the planet who has personal experience of Klangfilm Cinema Transducers hails out of Utah USA

No one said the David Karmeli is the only person who has personal experience with these speakers. He does have a lot of knowledge and experience though. This thread is about his system and Ron’s visit to hear that system and spend time with him and, at the time, hear his future turntable. Ron‘s opening post is excellent.

Do not overlook that this is where Marcel asked his question. The moon beam sure shines brightly.

 

[Argonaut]

Can you share those dimensions and the cut off frequency with us?

Apparently not … Some familiars find your request amusing !!! For my part this information would be invaluable to anyone considering taking on such a daunting project … Go for it @thomask

 

[asb]

Reading more than one time - I can not understand this post.

 

[PeterA]

Apparently not … Some familiars find your request amusing !!! For my part this information would be invaluable to anyone considering taking on such a daunting project … Go for it @thomask

I find it amusing because of the irony. People here celebrated Davi’s departure, and it’s clear you are somewhat hostile, so now asking for others to share information here of all places that David has learned from his own efforts is pretty rich.

Brad had this to say about DDK in a thread about him that has since been shut down inexplicably: “Most of his contributions are still here to be read by all...most of what he says in various threads is just that same ethos over and over….He actually didn't have a lot more new to add….”

The irony is now people want some of that information to be shared freely here. It’s best to contact him privately. He can be very generous with his time and advice.

 

[microstrip]

I find it amusing because of the irony. People here celebrated Davi’s departure, and it’s clear you are somewhat hostile, so now asking for others to share information here of all places that David has learned from his own efforts is pretty rich.

Brad had this to say about DDK in a thread about him that has since been shut down inexplicably: “Most of his contributions are still here to be read by all...most of what he says in various threads is just that same ethos over and over….He actually didn't have a lot more new to add….”

The irony is now people want some of that information to be shared freely here. It’s best to contact him privately. He can be very generous with his time and advice.

Your lack of interest for technical matters can find it amusing and you love writing dramas about DDK departure, but being a Lamm ML3 I have researched the Bionors in due time - there is plenty of literature and pages about the Bionors, including the theory and formulas behind its complex horn. MarcelNL managed to get very interesting information about it, I simply asked for it.

As far as I know this thread is copyright of WBF and any member can post here. It is natural that information on items relevant to DDK system are posted here.

 

[asb]

Where can you find "formulas behind its complex horn" ? Thank you.

 

[PeterA]

Your lack of interest for technical matters can find it amusing and you love writing dramas about DDK departure, but being a Lamm ML3 I have researched the Bionors in due time - there is plenty of literature and pages about the Bionors, including the theory and formulas behind its complex horn. MarcelNL managed to get very interesting information about it, I simply asked for it.

As far as I know this thread is copyright of WBF and any member can post here. It is natural that information on items relevant to DDK system are posted here.

David’s departure was dramatic enough to get the thread shut down and for someone higher up to go in and scrub his signature. It also prompted Jeffrey’s return to the forum.

This hobby is different things for different people. I’m glad you enjoy the technical aspects of it.

 

[Argonaut]

He does have a lot of knowledge and experience though

I agree entirely Peter … However for my part , the incessant post mortem Karmelli promo redux from yourself and tima … I find gratingly tedious !

Brad had this to say about DDK in a thread about him that has since been shut down inexplicably: “Most of his contributions are still here to be read by all...most of what he says in various threads is just that same ethos over and over….He actually didn't have a lot more new to add….”

Why are you dredging this opinion up ? What are you hoping to achieve ?

 

[microstrip]

Where can you find "formulas behind its complex horn" ? Thank you.

Horn Theory: An Introduction, Part 1 and 2 by Bjørn Kolbrek and the references within the article, including the Siemens patent. Bionors are referred in Part 2.

I have a few more articles stored in a folder in a computer I can't access now, but can look for them sometime next month.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjg57SjnKOAAxWQUKQEHVyzClgQFnoECBAQAQ&url=https://www.grc.com/acoustics/an-introduction-to-horn-theory.pdf&usg=AOvVaw2w9SFJXhe7Li3VAlsWtewE&opi=89978449


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjg57SjnKOAAxWQUKQEHVyzClgQFnoECBIQAQ&url=http://www.jmargolin.com/sono/refs/ref26_2008-015_Kolbrek_-_Horn_Theory_An_Introduction_Part_2.pdf&usg=AOvVaw0XSswpwgW5QMcs0UDNfJo3&opi=89978449

 

[Argonaut]

David’s departure was dramatic enough to get the thread shut down and for someone higher up to go in and scrub his signature.

What is it about the events of that evening that you and tima find so difficult to grasp ? As far as I recall Karmeli himself chose to flounce from participating in the forum and I quote ‘ I refuse to be moderated” … Is this higher power that you both appear to hold responsible Ron ? … Is that why you both incessantly nit pick at his posting content as some form of twisted payback!

 

[tima]

Search results for query: I refuse to be moderated

www.whatsbestforum.com

 

[microstrip]

No one said the David Karmeli is the only person who has personal experience with these speakers. He does have a lot of knowledge and experience though.

No one doubts about his knowledge and experience. However he only shared the critical aspects with his group of fans.

This thread is about his system and Ron’s visit to hear that system and spend time with him and, at the time, here is future turntable. Ron‘s opening post is excellent.

Do not overlook that this is where Marcel asked his question. The moon beam sure shines brightly.

Some of us want to keep some movement under this moon shine. You want it to look like a wake or something burried in the past.

 

[asb]

Re post 169 : thank you, I knew the Siemens Klangfilm patent and the articles of Bjørn K.
The patent specification does not show a formula for the so called "Spherical Wave Horn".
Kolbrek's article also does not, the construction must be done in an implicit way.

 

[morricab]

I find it amusing because of the irony. People here celebrated Davi’s departure, and it’s clear you are somewhat hostile, so now asking for others to share information here of all places that David has learned from his own efforts is pretty rich.

Brad had this to say about DDK in a thread about him that has since been shut down inexplicably: “Most of his contributions are still here to be read by all...most of what he says in various threads is just that same ethos over and over….He actually didn't have a lot more new to add….”

The irony is now people want some of that information to be shared freely here. It’s best to contact him privately. He can be very generous with his time and advice.

Why do you bring me up in this discussion,Peter? I have no interest in any sort of continued discussion about DDK. He left, his choice and it is not a big deal one way or the other. If he returns…also fine with me.

 

[Amir]

I find it amusing because of the irony. People here celebrated Davi’s departure, and it’s clear you are somewhat hostile, so now asking for others to share information here of all places that David has learned from his own efforts is pretty rich.

The irony is now people want some of that information to be shared freely here. It’s best to contact him privately. He can be very generous with his time and advice.

David shared many useful/valid information in WBF, he also invited audiophiles to listen to his wonderful setup so no doubt he is a real expert in audio world. I have read many posts/commnets from different members in WBF but I just liked David's post.

Celebrating David's departure proves small/close minds can not tolerate strong/valid ideas.

 

[PeterA]

Why do you bring me up in this discussion,Peter? I have no interest in any sort of continued discussion about DDK. He left, his choice and it is not a big deal one way or the other. If he returns…also fine with me.

Brad, I quoted your comment from the closed thread because it illustrates the irony I was describing to Argonaut above. Simple as that.

 

[MarcelNL]

Try contacting Thomas Schick and Frank Schroeder , they organised the ETF (European Triode Festival ) Berlin 2012 where a gentleman by the name of Andreas provided his pair of Bioners as the Test system transducers for the S.P.U.D amp shootout , they may be able to assist.


View attachment 113541

Perhaps join up to this Klangfilm FB page and make enquiries https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100069403153604

Try contacting the admin at https://www.melaudia.net/contacter.php , they may also know of a member with Bioner in EU .

thanks! I have a EU contact with a pair of Bionors but did not hear back from him just yet, it is vacation season after all.

That picture appears to be the same location as where BAM! 2021 was held, where we heard the Euronor Junior.
Somehow it seems as if this Bionor is not an original or parts were modified as the mid/high horn(s) in the original was mounted in the top panel.

 

[asb]

The speaker set seen there (ETF 2012) is completely original I am sure and horn is only
turned to downside near ear level for listening distance outside the cinema environment.

 

[MarcelNL]

The horn put lower for 'hifi ' listening makes sense, though the top part of the open baffle would show a gap and hence my doubt, in both Bionor versions (1 versus two midrange horns) the midrange was mounted in the top board.

 

[Argonaut]

The horn put lower for 'hifi ' listening makes sense, though the top part of the open baffle would show a gap and hence my doubt, in both Bionor versions (1 versus two midrange horns) the midrange was mounted in the top board.

Marcel , hopefully this image might help clarify.