Binaural Listening? I had a very compelling demo, have you?

Exactly . What was Blumhiems' intended goal ? Did listen to the early recordings or read his patent? The fact is jsut because stereo is not perfect or all things to all people. Does not mean it is fatally flawed. Others who set their own idea of his goals and then point out it does not accomplish it.

Can stereo create a symphony hall in your living room? Was that his intended goal?

Stereophonic sound was invented according to the anecdote so that the sound of a voice in a movie would follow an image across the screen. It was later used by Disney in his movie "Fantasia" around 1939 to create "a concert like experience." With the feasibility of manufacturing multitrack multichannel tape recorders for consumer use by companies like Wollensack, its use was adapted and companies like RCA sold pre-recorded tapes for what was then a limited market in the mid 1950s. It was further adapted for home high fidelity use with the introduction of the Western Electric Westrex 45/45 LP cutter around 1957. About 3 or 4 years later the FCC adopted the Zenith system of stero multiplexing as the US standard for FM stereo radio broadcasts.

The two channel format was quickly seen as flawed due to hearing two separate loudspeakers instead of a continuity of sound across a stage. The problem was dubbed "hole in the middle. Schemes for fixing it followed quickly. My 1962 HK A500 had a center channel preamp output with a front panel level control and a blend control. While the blend control reduced channel separation, Ralph Glasgal's patent for a separation control working for Fisher Radio increased it by adding the portion of commonality between the two channels out of phase. Between these schemes you could have 7 or more front channels if you wanted them. But the system was clearly flawed because it couldn't reproduce reflections off of concert hall walls and ceiling which is most of what you hear at live performances. In a naive effort to fix this problem through addition of more recorded channels, quadraphonic sound emerged in the mid 1970s only to die because it was even more flawed than two channel stereo. So the industry retreated into what it knew best and has redefined its goal to anything but reproducing the auditory experience of hearing music performed live by listening to recordings.

Meanwhile a few intrepid people have experimented with other entirely different ideas. So far none have resulted in widely accepted commercial products.
 
View attachment 6824No matter what system you use you are not able to put that in your living room. It's not big enough. You are not going to be able to put it inside your head either . The only way you can accomplish it is with tricks and illusions.

If god had wanted man to fly he would have given him wings. Heavier than air flight by human beings? Never gonna happen.
 
Certainly then we can follow a voice across a movie stage. Center fill is no problem at all for current systems. Achieving "concert like experience" is of course a a matter of degree. It depends on the concert and the lsiyener. Mans designs are limited. Fatal is to strong a word.
 
If god had wanted man to fly he would have given him wings. Heavier than air flight by human beings? Never gonna happen.

Maybe one day we can mimic the bumbe bee. There was a fascinating fiction novel were humans achieved flight through genetic manipulation. A huge wing sand and breastbone were required. Imagination is a wonderful thing.
 
Certainly then we can follow a voice across a movie stage. Center fill is no problem at all for current systems. Achieving "concert like experience" is of course a a matter of degree. It depends on the concert and the lsiyener. Mans designs are limited. Fatal is to strong a word.

Yes it depends on the concert. If you have a lot of space outdoors like say a farm you could probably duplicate the sound of an outdoor rock concert. All you'd need is a million watt generator, a ton of amplfiers and speakers, and a source to overload them.
 
Yes it depends on the concert. If you have a lot of space outdoors like say a farm you could probably duplicate the sound of an outdoor rock concert. All you'd need is a million watt generator, a ton of amplfiers and speakers, and a source to overload them.

There is a difference between "concert like" (your term) and duplicate. Citing an extreme example serves no purpose. Even your ambitious effort if ever realized, would come nowhere near a duplicate of the live event.
See Patent No. 394,325; The Audio Patents Chapter Three Section Binaural Sound about midway through the link at the bottom of the page;Also there
 
There is a difference between "concert like" (your term) and duplicate. Citing an extreme example serves no purpose. Even your ambitious effort if ever realized, would come nowhere near a duplicate of the live event.
See Patent No. 394,325; The Audio Patents Chapter Three Section Binaural Sound about midway through the link at the bottom of the page;Also there

I disdain the hyperbole so commonly in use today, nowhere moreso than in the high end audio industry. Whenever I read or hear terms like "jaw dropping" or "such and such blew the competition away" I immediately become suspicious. I tired a long time ago reading the hobbyist magazines reviews of the best speaker, amplifier, phono cartridge in the world of the month....always to be bettered by the one they reviewed the following month.

You couldn't possibly know what my invention is fully about from what little I've disclosed. That invention has been realized by the current prototype and exists even if there is no commercial product making that technology available to you and not likely to ever be. Never having heard it you'd have no way of knowing what it sounds like. Have you read the patent? Do you have any questions about it? Have you figured out how it actually works and what was deliberately omitted but implied? It was not intended to be easy reading even for those "skilled in the art."

I only revealed it here because someone specifically asked me to. I thought that might be a mistake. If and when anyone ever does hear it, I'll leave to to them to describe it to others. Everyone who invents something whether profound or trivial feels that their idea is the best one in the world. I feel the same way about my idea too.
 
Are you claiming your system can reproduce that rock concert in the park?Or replicate any of the major concert halls? I don't waste my time arguing with people who withhold pertinent information and then tell me my opinion is uninformed. For the record I did read as much of your patent as I could find on Google. IIRC it was you who said your product was experimental and was as likely to sound good as it was bad. Because I am a layman I do as much or more checking things before commenting as anyone on this forum.
I see no reason why anyone should be "cheeky" with an expired patent. The cat is out of the bag. I said it all ready. But it bears repeating. Call me when dinner is ready. (Dinner is a metaphor for your prototype.)
I disdain the hyperbole so commonly in use today, nowhere moreso than in the high end audio industry.

Almost every post you make seems to be just that. Hyperbole.
 
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I disdain the hyperbole so commonly in use today...

Everyone who invents something whether profound or trivial feels that their idea is the best one in the world. I feel the same way about my idea too.

I'm guessing the irony is completely unconsciously intended, but I'm having a ball reading your writings SM :)
 
Are you claiming your system can reproduce that rock concert in the park?Or replicate any of the major concert halls? I don't waste my time arguing with people who withhold pertinent information and then tell me my opinion is uninformed. For the record I did read as much of your patent as I could find on Google. IIRC it was you who said your product was experimental and was as likely to sound good as it was bad. Because I am a layman I do as much or more checking things before commenting as anyone on this forum.
I see no reason why anyone should be "cheeky" with an expired patent. The cat is out of the bag. I said it all ready. But it bears repeating. Call me when dinner is ready. (Dinner is a metaphor for your prototype.)

Almost every post you make seems to be just that. Hyperbole.

My concept does not include duplicating the sound of a live rock concert. As I define it, rock concerts are not music. They are part of the insanity of our age, deafening noise calculated to numb and offend the sense of hearing, not to please it.

I have explained elsewhere why variables inherent in commercial recordings and the acoustics of a room in a home preclude the exact duplication of what is heard in a specific seat at a specific concert hall. I've also stated that under controlled laboratory conditions, in principle the theory and ultimate design can duplicate the sound field present at any one point resulting from any finite number of sources to whateveer degree of accuracy is desired. Since neither such a laboratory nor the measuring instrument to provide the required data has ever been built, there is no proof that the idea will work in fact. It works so far only on paper. That is why I describe what the patented consumer entertainment version can do as "concert like."

I am satisfied with the results that are already obtainable from the existing prototype. I also stated that results so far have exceeded my expections by a wide margin. Future prototypes will be targeted at extending the "sweet region" for listening to the entire room. At least two variants of the theory indicate the requirements to achieve that goal. One says that if the sound field at the perimeter of the room is identical at all points to the sound field at the perimeter of an imaginary space of the same size and shape in a real environment, there will be a one to one correlation between the field at every point wtihin it between the real space and the simulated space. The other design concept simply maintains a fixed relationship between the intensity of the direct and reverberant fields at all points in the listening room. Neither look like they wiil be easy goals to achieve but the second one looks easier. Other changes if future prototypes are developed will be targeted at increasing control over the simulated field by generating more electrical and acoustic channels that operate independely of each other. It is not clear if this will result in an audible improvement but it will increase complexity of design, operation, and cost.

Tweaking sound fields by reprogramming and revectoring time delays, and altering spectral transfer functions including the rates at which they change as sound decays is much more effective at changing perceived sound and much more interesting than swapping out amplifiers, speakers, and wires. This kind of machine produces sounds other machines can't. I've been prodded by someone to describe and explain my equipment because of all of the criticisms I've leveled of other equipment in the past. The crux of my criticisms is mostly not the equipment the industry produces itself although much of it can certainly be judged harshly with good reason. My criticism is with the paradigm it's built around. A paradigm isn't merely a way to solve a problem, it's the way you look at the problem. If the view is too limited or otherwise distorted, an acceptable solution is precluded no matter how carefully or well intentioned it's implementation .

If you have figured out how this works, why not try buiding one yourself? If you haven't you can study it some more until you do or just stick with what you already have. If that satisfies you, fine, you're happy. It did not satisfy me. I didn't like it and I thought I could do much better.
 
SM-Rock and Roll is full of those seeing fame and fortune. Fortunately there are also those who are musicians who care about the musical content and sound quality of the recordings they release.
I wish you luck in your endeavors. There is a great deal of venture capital out there. Perhaps you can find a music lover who is interested. The CD was conceived by a disgruntled audiophile at his breakfast table.

Tom it is not clear to me if Blumlien ever coined the term Binaural or Stereo. He did not live to see the implementation of either. It is clear that he realized headphones at that time was just not a practical option for the masses at that time. He applied his principal to multiple speakers. The inevitable conclusion is it was the same principal applied to headphones and speakers. He realized the inferiority of the latter.
 
250px-Blumlein_-Stereo.pngblumleinpair.jpg
 
I said binaural and stereo were fraternal twins. Without repeating my self I think Linkwitz siad something different about reflected sounds. Even though all those reflections are reaching your ears they do not all contribute to what you perceive.Remember .I feel no need tp denigrate any format only to promote stereo. It's like tubes and transistors, thet are different but have the same lineage .
.
This has served a purpose. I thought I understood both formats. Now I can put it into words.

Maybe I'll get a chance to see what Chesky plans to do with two speajers
 
Mot thi
ngs are trial and error.
 
tStereo is no the problem with highend audio. The bane of high end audio is the sealed acoustic suspension speaker and the insanely elaborate and expensive amplifiers needed to drive them.
 
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Stereo is no the problem with highend audio. The bane of high end audio is the sealed acoustic suspension speaker and the insanely elaborate and expensive amplifiers needed to drive them.

I'm curious about how you came to that conclusion. This looks like a topic for a new thread but then...I don't care if it's off topic myself but some people.....

The same man who invented the acoustic suspension woofer invented the dome tweeter. Edgar Villchur. Any problems with that? I think it was after he left the company he started, Acoustic Research that it invented ferro fluid cooling. It also introduced the first turntable I know of that had the platter, motor and tonearm mounted by springs on a subchassis to isolate them from physical shocks.

It took me nearly 30 years to figure out how an acoustic suspension woofer actually works. Once you see it, it's simple and straightforward. IMO Villchur who was neither a scientist nor an engineer but had his doctorate in education never really understood it correctly himself. He got the right answer for the wrong reason. Intuitive invention and engineering. It doesn't matter how it got it. All that matters is that it was right. It's a perfect application of Newton's second law of motion applied to forced oscillation. It's a classical problem in every college level texst on physics and mechanics dynamics. Study that and we can discuss it. It 's a topic I know a little something about.
 
I'm talking about the expensive massive amplifiers to drive them. In addition to the elaborate and expensive cabinets to house them. Crossovers are a nightmare also.

Von Schwiekert in his video on the VR-44 talks about $30-50k for an aluminum enclosure. Contrast that to NOLA Ko that is an open baffle design and amplifier freindly for under $10k
 
I'm talking about the expensive massive amplifiers to drive them. In addition to the elaborate and expensive cabinets to house them. Crossovers are a nightmare also.

Von Schwiekert in his video on the VR-44 talks about $30-50k for an aluminum enclosure. Contrast that to NOLA Ko that is an open baffle design and amplifier freindly for under $10k

The granddaddy of acoustic suspension woofers is the AR1W. The design didn't change from about 1955 to the 1990s. Among the last production units using that design was AR303. The materials and methods of manufacture changed for example form a cast frame, alnico magnet, and cloth surround to stamped frame, ferrite magnet, and foam surround. In principle, all AR 12" (or 11" depending on who you talk to) woofers are interchangeable. The original Large Advent woofer was a knockoff and performed practically identically. Others used it in their design. Dhalquist used it for the woofer in his famous DQ10. Around 1955 the New York Audio League, predecessor to AES took 4 AR1s and 4 150 watt Western Electric amplifiers to Riverside Church in New York City for a Live versus Recorded experiment with an Aolean Skinner pipe organ. The industry stood up and took notice. Around 1960 AR introduced its own 3 way speaker incorporating that design in the AR3. It introduced the dome tweeter and a dome midrange driver it also invented. It became the world standard for accuracy and is on display at the Smithsonian Institute. Its successor which appeared around 1967 AR3a used the same woofer but an improved tweeter, midrange, and crossover. It was also a very widely desired and highly regarded speaker in its day. That's why so many people who restore old speakers hunt them down. Even by today's standards that woofer is an excellent performer.

The enclosure is nothing special, a rectangular sealed box of less than two cubic feet made out of a rigid material, marine plywood at the beginning and reinforced with some internal bracing. The type and amount of stuffing internally along with the enclosure volume is critical to its tuning to get the optimal Q. This woofer/enclosure is designed for around F3 of 35 hz, critical damping of .707 and has an equalizable linear falloff of 12 db per octave. Its usual crossover network is a simple second order LC low pass filter. It will produce a 30 hz tone with about 5% THD. It was among the best performing woofers available for home use 50 years ago and nothing near its price came close.

When originally displayed by the manufacturer AR woofers were driven by Dynaco Stereo 70 amplifiers. More powerful solid state amplifiers that can handle very low impedance loads down to one ohm or less and have power bandwidths that can drive the speaker to extremely low frequencies prove even better. Collectors of these speakers often favor Adcom GFA555, Crown 1000, QSC, Phase Linear 400 and 700, McIntosh, and others but any high powered amplifier that meets these criteria should work well. The drivers are rated for 150 to 200 watts rms but will handle peak impulse power of over 1 KW.

The best low frequency reproducer AR manufactured is acknowledged among those who know their products to be Teledyne AR9 (there was a later AR speaker called AR9 but it was entirely different.) It contains 2 side firing 12" woofers in a double sized enclosure. They're crossed over at 200 hz to an 8" front firing lower midrange, have an F3 of 28 hz and a Q of 0.5. A special crossover network consiting of a 2500 mf computer grade cap and 2 large inductors keeps the impedance of the parallel nominally 4 ohm drivers from going much below 4 ohms. They are equalizable flat in my room to below audibility. The can produce much more and deeper undistorted bass than any speaker I'm famaliar with and more than is required for any music. In fact they can produce wall shaking, window rattling, gut wrenching bass that can be overwhelming. The Dayton RS 1200 powered subwoofer seems to be patterned after it. Because of the double sided configuration, placement is critical and should be against the wall at least 2 feet from a side wall.

When they were manufactured AR3 sold for $225, AR3a for $250, and AR9 for $900 each. Some can quibble about small amounts of cabinet resonance but it's all the woofer I'll ever need for the room it's in.

If you'd like to discuss how it works I've got some insight into it and why it is different from other types of woofers. There's a 10" lower cost version used in AR2 series, AR5, AR90 and others. It works surprisingly well but doesn't have nearly the power capacity or quite the low end reach of the 12" version. AR5 is a 10" version of AR3a. Some prefer it for its slightly better lower midrange. 3 way speakers have always proved troublesome covering the entire audio spectrum. AR9 was a 4 way design. IMO all of these speakers benefit from careful equalization. They do not strive for "imaging" and usually don't satisfy audiophiles who find that important.

The acoustic suspension design seems to me to have become largely extinct among audiophile speakers. Where they're used, they don't seem to advertise the fact prominently. Right now ported designs are much more favored. I really don't know why. Practically all the speakers I own and most I listen to are acoustic suspension.
 
A summer job enabled me to purchase he AR 2ax.
 
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