wisnon

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Dec 12, 2011
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I’m totally ignorant about technical aspects but heard several apparently expert audiophiles with technical knowledge that high efficiency is not the solution but tone control. Obviously I should try to find out.
The structure/balance of the Heils are the same at low volume as at high volume.The Syrinx will be shockingly cheap for what it delivers...Quad like highs. Limitation is that the sound will break up when over pushed like above 95+db...but that is comfortably above your max max listening level. at 60 db and 90db it will sound essentially identical. The Heil driver is magnificent and the dipole configuration is great. only position requirement is to have at least a foot clearance to the nearest side walls. They are fairly light and easily moved back and forth anyway. 91db/6 ohms, so easy to drive... If you are not a price tag snob, you may have found your nirvana here. Its so cheap, its worth a try and you cant really lose....

Last point I forgot to mention is the speed of the AMT driver, which shows up in piano playback, especially. Air output is 5x the speed of intake and so is really an air velocity transformer. Probably only ion tweeters can compare to speed transients in this regard.
 
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Ricco275

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The structure/balance of the Heils are the same at low volume as at high volume.The Syrinx will be shockingly cheap for what it delivers...Quad like highs. Limitation is that the sound will break up when over pushed like above 95+db...but that is comfortably above your max max listening level. at 60 db and 90db it will sound essentially identical. The Heil driver is magnificent and the dipole configuration is great. only position requirement is to have at least a foot clearance to the nearest side walls. They are fairly light and easily moved back and forth anyway. 91db/6 ohms, so easy to drive... If you are not a price tag snob, you may have found your nirvana here. Its so cheap, its worth a try and you cant really lose....

Last point I forgot to mention is the speed of the AMT driver, which shows up in piano playback, especially. Air output is 5x the speed of intake and so is really an air velocity transformer. Probably only ion tweeters can compare to speed transients in this regard.
They wouldn’t pass WAF.
 

Ricco275

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Anyone has listened to these?

IMG_7149.jpeg
 

steve59

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Jan 7, 2018
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I was about to buy a pair of paradigm persona B speakers for low volume listening and keep my kef blades for the rest of the time and on a chance I brought home a pair of McIntosh mc611’s and the music those blades started putting out with Less than a watt of power floored me. Seriously, before replacing your current speakers if you like them otherwise, try some different amps on them.
 

Ricco275

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I was about to buy a pair of paradigm persona B speakers for low volume listening and keep my kef blades for the rest of the time and on a chance I brought home a pair of McIntosh mc611’s and the music those blades started putting out with Less than a watt of power floored me. Seriously, before replacing your current speakers if you like them otherwise, try some different amps on them.
I think the speakers are not good for low volume listening. The Vitus is a beast.
 

steve59

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Jan 7, 2018
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It was a relatable problem I found a surprising solution to.
 

Kingrex

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Feb 3, 2019
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I’m totally ignorant about technical aspects but heard several apparently expert audiophiles with technical knowledge that high efficiency is not the solution but tone control. Obviously I should try to find out.
Might be true but is low efficiency and high power also a tone control. I think its true every amp and speaker results in a tone. You need to find if its the tone you want and does it perform at stated specification when run at low volume. I personally run across a lot of people with say a Wilson and big amps that feel they have to Turn It Up to have it play as they feel it should. Not always. A friend has Magico A3 with a Diablo and he plays at moderate levels. Never very loud.

If neighbors are an issue, then any speaker that has bass down in the 20s before it rolls off may be an issue. Bass goes through walls and floors much more readily than mids and highs.
 
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Solypsa

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Kingrex

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Solypsa

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True but he is in Paris so EU taxes etc. Word from a friend is the Martion Einhorn was blowing minds at Munich. A bit above the OP price point but there are smaller models.
 

jbrrp1

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Aug 3, 2020
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The Stenheim Alumine 2 could be a good choice. It's fairly efficient, which helps provide nice "jump factor" even at lower volumes, and it doesn't plumb the depths below 50 hz too much, so it won't transmit bass to the neighbors so much. I run the SE version in my living room system, and I really like the microdynamic life it breathes. And my wife doesn't let me crank it!

That said, the TAD comments above about them being possible good choices are likely true, too, and for a speaker that is not particularly efficient. I heard the E1 at RMAF and was really drawn to that same articulation of microdynamic shading for it. It was that experience that got me exploring the TAD line. The ME1 likely shares this trait. I know my CR-1's do! Not efficient, but they don't suck at low volumes. (Of course, there's nothing like realistic concert levels for all forms of music!)
 
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Fishfood

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I would go check out ATC powered speakers if you can. I've been listening to professional powered studio monitor type speakers a lot lately and I think they can really deliver at all volumes. They are very neutral so best used with tubes.
 

DasguteOhr

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Sep 26, 2013
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Take a look at Bastanis for smaller rooms the wild horn or for bigger rooms the open baffle with active woofer 100-102db/ 1watt. Good 8-10 watt is enough
Sound check... plays low volume too really good sorry
 
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Serenade

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Nov 30, 2022
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Raidho or Borreson. Designed for small Danish homes in quiet villages where neighbours frown on loud noises. I have heard the Raidho at low volumes, and they sound good enough not to need cranking the volume up.

My personal experience as a TAD Evo1 owner is they come alive at 80+dB. During my auditions before settling on the Evo1 (and as an ex Sophia 3 owner), is that the Sabrinas sound best playing loud. Ditto for ATC SCM50A. The active ATC were good soft, but great when playing very loud.

I too have volume constraints after 10PM. Housing complex rules dictates so. After 10PM, I switch genres to Sinatra and Jobin from large scale, and turn the volume down low. Still enjoyable on the TAD.
 

Ricco275

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Raidho or Borreson. Designed for small Danish homes in quiet villages where neighbours frown on loud noises. I have heard the Raidho at low volumes, and they sound good enough not to need cranking the volume up.

My personal experience as a TAD Evo1 owner is they come alive at 80+dB. During my auditions before settling on the Evo1 (and as an ex Sophia 3 owner), is that the Sabrinas sound best playing loud. Ditto for ATC SCM50A. The active ATC were good soft, but great when playing very loud.

I too have volume constraints after 10PM. Housing complex rules dictates so. After 10PM, I switch genres to Sinatra and Jobin from large scale, and turn the volume down low. Still enjoyable on the TAD.
Thanks I’ll check those. I am considering Odeon Helix which is high efficiency which should at least help even if I know is not necessarily a permanent solution.
 
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Gregm

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Mar 14, 2019
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I have heard several opinions pointing out that the main issue is hearing certain frequency at low volume and that it's not necessarily linked to sensitivity. Therefore some recommend tweaking with tone controls or loudness button where available.
Yes, we are less sensitive to low & very high frequencies (you probably already know about the "equal loudness" curve).

Budget max $15k new or used.

I am looking for speakers sounding musical, with wide soundstage, not cold, detailed yet not analytical.

I mostly listen to classic rock, blues and jazz.

The system sits at the end of the long wall in a living room measuring 33x13ft, listening position 8ft from the speakers.

Unfortunately I have to face a tough WAF putting several limits:

- speakers must have a clean design, not black, not too hifi looking... and not too big
- distance from the wall behind the speakers 25cm

I don't mind changing amplifier if it will be necessary to match the next speakers.

I haven't found a preamp that I could consider a good candidate except a very expensive CSport featuring a loudness button which works very well (tested at Ana Mighty Sound).

I would much appreciate some advice from who knows well the above speakers or who had similar needs.
I understand your predicament :) IMO the only model in your list that meets (sort of) your criteria is the Sabrina. Wilson makes good products but you need to audition them -- and they are expensive.

Wy not consider a local product rather than an imported one: apart from the obvious Focal, you also have excellent products by Apertura (beautifully lacquered, + 93dB sensitivity), Jean-Marie Reynaud (the Cantabile series), and, ofcourse, Cabasse (I find the "Pearl" excellent for the price and your wife might even take to the design!) -- & let's not forget the impressive Diptyque (not sure of WAF, though!).

I believe that 15k euro will take you a longer way with a local product, especially from a small (but excellent) designer!
 

Ricco275

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Yes, we are less sensitive to low & very high frequencies (you probably already know about the "equal loudness" curve).


I understand your predicament :) IMO the only model in your list that meets (sort of) your criteria is the Sabrina. Wilson makes good products but you need to audition them -- and they are expensive.

Wy not consider a local product rather than an imported one: apart from the obvious Focal, you also have excellent products by Apertura (beautifully lacquered, + 93dB sensitivity), Jean-Marie Reynaud (the Cantabile series), and, ofcourse, Cabasse (I find the "Pearl" excellent for the price and your wife might even take to the design!) -- & let's not forget the impressive Diptyque (not sure of WAF, though!).

I believe that 15k euro will take you a longer way with a local product, especially from a small (but excellent) designer!
Unfortunately they look too much like speakers to be pass the WAF
 

Ricco275

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May 22, 2023
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I think I will go for the Pure Audio Duet15. High efficiency and barely WAF proof.
IMG_7196.jpeg
 

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