Avantgarde Loudspeakers: Solid-State or Tube Amps

Ron Resnick

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Jan 25, 2015
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Breaking news - new Trio G3 with iTron amplification . No more problem with external amps, fully active speakers with built-in amplifiers.

I don't understand. Is iTron amplification solid-state or tubes?
 

remdeck

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Apr 10, 2018
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Solid State. As I could understand, the technology of the amp driving the drivers is different as what we are used to, to get better control over the speakers. What they actually do technically is still a mystery
 

Ron Resnick

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I wish them the best of luck!

(I, personally, to my ears, feel that I need the highest quality SET tube amplification on Avantgarde speakers to avoid fatigue.)
 
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KeithR

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I wouldn't say that Audiopax is THE SINGLE BEST combo with Avantgarde there is but it sure as hell is lightyears better than their (Avantgarde's) own dreck SS-amps they produce :eek:

Their own amps are by far the worst combo for their Horns.
Confirmed a hundred of times :rolleyes:
What about the $100k SS integrated Acapella tried to peddle with their horns.
 

K3RMIT

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What you need is an amp to match them. An SS amp can deliver far more power to horns. i agree set amps have magic but few use them correctly. The SS amp can over drive horns this may lead to fatigue.
 

Ron Resnick

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This business about using solid-state amplification to drive horn loudspeakers, especially Avantgarde horn loudspeakers, is totally baffling to me (unless, possibly, an audiophile is of the discrete hi-fi sonic attribute philosophy, seeking only to maximize detail and frequency extension and dynamics and separation and bass impact in pursuit of some notion of "accuracy" or "fidelity to source").
 
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remdeck

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Apr 10, 2018
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Another video of the new iTron :
https://youtu.be/AzZZruWaGJQ

I still don't understand what is so special about iTron. Normally Tube amps are voltage amps, and solid state amps are current amps. But something must be different here.
 

Cableman

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Dec 27, 2013
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What you need is an amp to match them. An SS amp can deliver far more power to horns. i agree set amps have magic but few use them correctly. The SS amp can over drive horns this may lead to fatigue.
The bit where you said setting them correctly is spot on. It’s hard. But when you have boy dies the magic begin. And no SS amp I’ve encountered bests it.
 
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Hear Here

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(unless, possibly, an audiophile is of the discrete hi-fi sonic attribute philosophy, seeking only to maximize detail and frequency extension and dynamics and separation and bass impact in pursuit of some notion of "accuracy" or "fidelity to source").
Ha-ha - that all seems a pretty convincing reason for using SS - or at least giving it a fair trial.

I used SETs for my first 15 years with Avantgarde, but I've switched to SS, though it was a long exercise to find an amp that offered as good a sound as SET. I now listen to far more music without tubes burning away. I could do better and and will look towards upgrading part of my system, but with the budget I had, my switch from SETs was well justified.
 
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Hear Here

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What about the $100k SS integrated Acapella tried to peddle with their horns.
Avantgarde and Acapella not the only culprits. Other first class speaker builders offer ridiculously over-priced electronics too. I've been looking at omnis. Great speakers from MBL and Gerrman Physics, but just look at their amp prices !!
 

Blue58

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And Terry’s 2nd part up in YouTube. More details re. Drivers etc.
 

caesar

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May 31, 2010
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Gentlemen,
Very interesting discussion. For the Avantgarde speakers that have active built-in amps, how is the best affected by tubes vs. SS, or via different SS amps? Since the speaker has its own amplifier for bass, does the bass always sound the same regardless of amplifier used?
 

Hear Here

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Feb 14, 2020
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Portsmouth, UK
Gentlemen,
Very interesting discussion. For the Avantgarde speakers that have active built-in amps, how is the best affected by tubes vs. SS, or via different SS amps? Since the speaker has its own amplifier for bass, does the bass always sound the same regardless of amplifier used?

The existing and past "standard" Avantgarde systems (Uno, Duo, Trio) have always featured a self-powered bass enclosure that started off with only speaker level input from the power amp, but more recently (from about 2005) accepted either speaker level or line level input. AG has always advocated the speaker level input. This is affected by the main power amp that provides the input that goes virtually unhindered to the mid and top, but is further amplified by the built-in SS amp for the bass. Since most tube amps offer less than perfect bass, the audible result of the bass is significantly influenced by this main amp. If line level is chosen, the bass signal bypasses the main amp as it will normally come directly from the preamp.

The new Trio (and presumably soon the Uno and Duo) is fully active so needs only a streamer or other digital input – or analogue via its ADC. The built-in electronics include electronic crossover, DSP for room correction (presumably / hopefully bass only), DAC and power amps for each driver. In their active Zero speaker AG use Class A for the mid and top but Class D for the bass. The new Trio uses AG's “iTron” amplification. It’ll be interesting to see how this sounds compared with tube amps or existing SS amps into conventional passive crossovers used in the existing Trio, Duo and Uno.

Presumably users will still be able to influence the sound from their G3 Series AGs by their chosen preamp – tube or ss. We’ll have less flexibility but if the iTron system with the other new electronics work as expected, we’ll end up with even better sound than the G2 Series speakers. Kii and Dutch & Dutch have started a European revolution in speaker design that AG seems keen to develop too. Exciting times!

.
 
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User211

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I'm looking forward to hearing the new Trios.

Someday I have a feeling I'll end up with a pair.
 

bonzo75

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I'm looking forward to hearing the new Trios. Someday I have a feeling I'll end up with a pair.

I knew you would come round
 

Ron Resnick

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Jan 25, 2015
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I just watched the video. I am happy to see that the new model appears to have a substantially sturdier frame structure than the old model, which I found to be surprisingly flimsy at that price point.
 
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User211

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I knew you would come round
I actually think they would work well in my current room.

That said, the room needs some work on it as it was designed as an art studio. Real wood floors, and maybe quite a bit of this stuff:


Ron - they did a better frame version of the Trios.
 

bonzo75

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I actually think they would work well in my current room.

Yes they will. So will some dual woofer FLHs if you want to build one.
 

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