Antipodes Owners - Systems - Whats Best at Your House

[kennyb123]

I haven't yet heard the Oladra (or a K series) and will assume from this thread and others that it's also a shocking improvement over my EX/CX combo (which was a shocking improvement itself over previous purpose-built servers I had).

I have posted another thread on K30 vs K50. I think this can give some insight into the qualities you might hear when upgrading.

My upgrade philosophy previously was based on the weak link in the chain adage. I thought a system can be no more resolving or transparent than the least resolving component or cable. As such I tried to aim for having everything at a commensurate level of performance by going after the weakest link one by one. I do think this is a good strategy when building a system. It’s just that when you get to that point of no glaring weaknesses the dynamic changes a bit. There are of course exceptions to these rules.

I have long been nagging @ricjor1 to improve the power supply for his DAVE as the stock power supply doesn’t live up to the rest of his system. It’s $45 part. As he mentioned OLADRA as next, I worry that he isn’t now able to appreciate how good his K21/K41 is because of that weak link.

I just swapped in a QSA Lanedri interconnect and a pair of their power cords for Shunyata Delta v2. This is turning out to be one of my most impactful upgrades. The improved realism is remarkable. I think though in this case the better the server the more impressive the upgrade. I can’t afford OLADRA but after hearing what these cables can do, I’m thinking it might not be at the top of my list even if I could. It’s hard to say. It think the problem is that it is really hard to determine which are our weakest links without doing comparisons. Best we can do is make educated guesses.

 

[ICUToo]

I haven't yet heard the Oladra (or a K series) and will assume from this thread and others that it's also a shocking improvement over my EX/CX combo (which was a shocking improvement itself over previous purpose-built servers I had).

The K50 is excellent- a nice improvement over my MacMini. The Oladra is a small step up again, but to call the improvement "shocking" would be dramatic overstatement.
This hobby needs sensible descriptors so we can understand changes without being unduly influenced.

 

[kennyb123]

The Oladra is a small step up again, but to call the improvement "shocking" would be dramatic overstatement.
This hobby needs sensible descriptors so we can understand changes without being unduly influenced.

“Shocking” implies that the user wasn’t expecting the level of improvement. I think many K50 owners wonder how things could possibly get much better so I think this conveys well the reaction.

“Small” conveys nothing useful. One man’s “small” could very well be another man’s “significant” as small differences can have a musically significant impact.

I tend to use the term “subtle” when I think the difference might be something that not every listener might pick up on. Our familiarity with our own systems can make something that might be subtle to visitors a much bigger deal to us

I do agree that better descriptors are needed. I often follow up with questions to better understand what was meant because what I really care about is how I might react to the difference.

 

[acg]

“Small” conveys nothing useful. One man’s “small” could very well be another man’s “significant” as small differences can have a musically significant impact.

Agreed.

I have a large six-way horn system which the Oladra has let "breathe"..it sounds so alive now. That may not be heard in a less dynamic system.

The K50 was nice for the short time it was here...but the Oladra is something else entirely.

 

[ricjor1]

In my opinion the problem is two-fold. A component can impact every system differently and some "audiophiles" exaggerate differences between components. Personally, I have yet to hear night and day differences between components.

 

[kennyb123]

Personally, I have yet to hear night and day differences between components.

I have. In your case, you seem to do a lot of upfront analysis and that has helped you avoid poor choices or choices that don’t align well with your preferences. It also helps you better know what to expect.

The flip side of that is that it is a rather safe approach. Sometimes one needs to take leaps of faith to really move the needle. Those upgrades that I lump in the “game changer” bucket have come more from taking more gambles. The K30 counts as one of those moves. I honestly had no idea how much of an improvement it was going to bring over my Innuos Zenith Mk3 but my pre-sale discussions with Mark Cole gave me a ton of confidence in the brand and the 30 day money back offer helped reduce the risk. The K30 brought what I saw as a night and day difference in terms of bringing what can best be described as the positives from the very best vinyl to my system. This was taken even further with my next leap of faith, which was the x26pro. That a $1500 DAC would unleash so much more goodness than a $6000 is not something I could have figured out though painstaking upfront analysis. Sometimes you just have to suck it and see.

 

[Parsons]

How much improvement one gets is going to be dependent on so many different factors it's almost not worth trying to discuss it, unfortunately, as there's isn't a universal result we could agree to. I do find the different data points from individuals very useful as a direction (including the feedback that something wasn't that big of an improvement for someone in their system), but trying a device or combo of devices in your own system is, sadly, the only real way to know for yourself. My points from earlier simply were to suggest that the additive improvements (better dacs, network isolation, 30 other things, etc.)--each being small and expensive--can combine to really make an individual component become part of a truly impressive improvement, or make the improvement you heard even better than with that component by itself. The server is massively important if you want to use Roon (as I do), stream from the internet as I prefer to do (although a well-implemented streaming DAC could arguably be an alternative if you're ok with their app as the controller), there are a lot of other factors that can increase your enjoyment (or lack thereof). It may take a combo of improvements together to really be "shocked," and then you might only really be "shocked" by how much you spent. Each owner will only be able to make the value statement within their own system and own budget. I'm stating the obvious, I know.

 

[F208Frank]

How much improvement one gets is going to be dependent on so many different factors it's almost not worth trying to discuss it, unfortunately, as there's isn't a universal result we could agree to. I do find the different data points from individuals very useful as a direction (including the feedback that something wasn't that big of an improvement for someone in their system), but trying a device or combo of devices in your own system is, sadly, the only real way to know for yourself. My points from earlier simply were to suggest that the additive improvements (better dacs, network isolation, 30 other things, etc.)--each being small and expensive--can combine to really make an individual component become part of a truly impressive improvement, or make the improvement you heard even better than with that component by itself. The server is massively important if you want to use Roon (as I do), stream from the internet as I prefer to do (although a well-implemented streaming DAC could arguably be an alternative if you're ok with their app as the controller), there are a lot of other factors that can increase your enjoyment (or lack thereof). It may take a combo of improvements together to really be "shocked," and then you might only really be "shocked" by how much you spent. Each owner will only be able to make the value statement within their own system and own budget. I'm stating the obvious, I know.

Beautifully written. Poetic like. Truth. Lightness.

 

[KrellFan1]

So, I trusted Mark Cole and ordered the K41 to go with my K21. Out of the box, cold, my system simply sounds better. I'm so happy that after listening to several songs I emailed Mark to thank him. Mark posted on this thread that there is a "massive" difference between my S40/S60 combination and K41. Instead of saying massive or night and day, this is the best testimony that I can provide. My plan is to compare a DCS Rossini DAC to my Chord Dave. I recently compared my Dave to the Bartok, but preferred the Dave. If I don't hear a big enough of a difference between the Rossini and Dave, I'm already considering going to the Oladra. This is a crazy hobby!

Hi; glad to hear you’re enjoying the upgrade to the K41. I just purchased the latest K22 player and am quite happy with it to date, despite having only 50-60 hours on it. Naturally I’ve got an appetite now for the lates K41 server. So just wondering which music server you used prior to S40/S60, and was this as significant an upgrade for you?

 

[ricjor1]

Hi; glad to hear you’re enjoying the upgrade to the K41. I just purchased the latest K22 player and am quite happy with it to date, despite having only 50-60 hours on it. Naturally I’ve got an appetite now for the lates K41 server. So just wondering which music server you used prior to S40/S60, and was this as significant an upgrade for you?

I went from a Antipodes DSGT, to a S30/S40/S60 combination, and to my current K21/K41. I don't hear a "massive" difference, but I do hear an easily discernable difference that's worth it to me.

 

[KrellFan1]

I went from a Antipodes DSGT, to a S30/S40/S60 combination, and to my current K21/K41. I don't hear a "massive" difference, but I do hear an easily discernable difference that's worth it to me.

Cool; I appreciate the feedback. Looks as though your starting out point featured a higher end unit than my current SGC SonicTransporter which actually serves me quite well. But as we know there is always a rabbit hole waiting for us SO I suppose when I am feeling "rich" I'll consider taking the plunge. For what it's worth I am using an EtherREGEN with a Sonore Optical Module feeding my K22 and it makes for quite a nice upgrade . -

 

[kennyb123]

For what it's worth I am using an EtherREGEN with a Sonore Optical Module feeding my K22 and it makes for quite a nice upgrade

I do this as well.

I recently got another chance to compare the K30 to a K50 G2. I’m guessing the K30 might be about on par with the K22 or maybe slightly better, while the K50 would be equivalent to your K22 plus a K41. The K50 provides some additional weight and density to the music that makes listening more compelling. I’ve been throwing all kinds of piano recordings at it as piano just sounds more real - especially the middle notes. Dynamics are more impactful as well. One of my favorite albums is “Beyond the Missouri Sky” by Metheny and Haden. It features mostly acoustic guitar and bass and the K50 brings a more visceral impact because of the additional weight combined with the improved dynamics.

While I do think that the K30 was a steal because of how much it gets right relative to the K50, there’s some about the K50 that makes it sound like my system has advanced to the next tier of performance. There’s additional refinement too and I think that leaves me more of thinking that I’m hearing a live performance instead of a recording of a live performance. The K50 gets more of the little things right is a good way to describe it, I think. Tonal purity is increased as well, likely due to a reduction in noise. You would likely notice an even greater improvement in that area because you have only a single board in your K22 while the K30 has two boards.

 

[KrellFan1]

I do this as well.

I recently got another chance to compare the K30 to a K50 G2. I’m guessing the K30 might be about on par with the K22 or maybe slightly better, while the K50 would be equivalent to your K22 plus a K41. The K50 provides some additional weight and density to the music that makes listening more compelling. I’ve been throwing all kinds of piano recordings at it as piano just sounds more real - especially the middle notes. Dynamics are more impactful as well. One of my favorite albums is “Beyond the Missouri Sky” by Metheny and Haden. It features mostly acoustic guitar and bass and the K50 brings a more visceral impact because of the additional weight combined with the improved dynamics.

While I do think that the K30 was a steal because of how much it gets right relative to the K50, there’s some about the K50 that makes it sound like my system has advanced to the next tier of performance. There’s additional refinement too and I think that leaves me more of thinking that I’m hearing a live performance instead of a recording of a live performance. The K50 gets more of the little things right is a good way to describe it, I think. Tonal purity is increased as well, likely due to a reduction in noise. You would likely notice an even greater improvement in that area because you have only a single board in your K22 while the K30 has two boards.

Cool that you’re into fiber optical; awesome, and very good to know, and thanks. Your description is consistent with the Christiaan Punter review I’ve read on both the K41 and K22 that, according to KP, pretty much = the K50. He states in his review (or perhaps in a reply to me) that the K22 delivers much of the upgrade having come from a Tier 2 Sonore Signature Rendu which I LOVED. The K30 is no longer made of course and is replaced by the K50. So I’m 3/4 of the way there!

I like how you characterize the sonic qualities you’ve heard improve. Thats great. As an aside I actually heard much the same when I upgraded to a rather obscure brand of cables that enjoys a small cult like following I actually discovered on this website - Cerious Technologies Lumniscate. His power cords alone transformed my system and delivered much of the bump in SQ you describe here. I couldn’t wait to install his AES cable to my Tambaqui DAC which replaced my coveted Sablon Audio Evo USB cable. Wow. Just wow. So the K22 is something I do aspire to…. I’m attaching a few pics of these outrageous cables.

 

[barbz127]

I do this as well.

I recently got another chance to compare the K30 to a K50 G2. I’m guessing the K30 might be about on par with the K22 or maybe slightly better, while the K50 would be equivalent to your K22 plus a K41. The K50 provides some additional weight and density to the music that makes listening more compelling. I’ve been throwing all kinds of piano recordings at it as piano just sounds more real - especially the middle notes. Dynamics are more impactful as well. One of my favorite albums is “Beyond the Missouri Sky” by Metheny and Haden. It features mostly acoustic guitar and bass and the K50 brings a more visceral impact because of the additional weight combined with the improved dynamics.

While I do think that the K30 was a steal because of how much it gets right relative to the K50, there’s some about the K50 that makes it sound like my system has advanced to the next tier of performance. There’s additional refinement too and I think that leaves me more of thinking that I’m hearing a live performance instead of a recording of a live performance. The K50 gets more of the little things right is a good way to describe it, I think. Tonal purity is increased as well, likely due to a reduction in noise. You would likely notice an even greater improvement in that area because you have only a single board in your K22 while the K30 has two boards.

Do you have any plans to send the k30 in for the upgrade?

 

[kennyb123]

Do you have any plans to send the k30 in for the upgrade?

Yes, eventually. A few other expenditures had to be given priority, most of them not related to audio.

 

[kennyb123]

The K30 is no longer made of course and is replaced by the K50.

The K30 was beneath the K50 in their lineup when these were the only two K-series servers. The K30 was the S30+S40+S60 in a single chassis, where as the K50 was their flagship. Sadly the K30 got discontinued during the pandemic.

I like how you characterize the sonic qualities you’ve heard improve. Thats great. As an aside I actually heard much the same when I upgraded to a rather obscure brand of cables that enjoys a small cult like following I actually discovered on this website - Cerious Technologies Lumniscate. His power cords alone transformed my system and delivered much of the bump in SQ you describe here. I couldn’t wait to install his AES cable to my Tambaqui DAC which replaced my coveted Sablon Audio Evo USB cable. Wow. Just wow. So the K22 is something I do aspire to…. I’m attaching a few pics of these outrageous cables.

Sweet looking cables. I’ve also had cables bring about a transformation in my system, but it was those from QSA Lanedri. The improved transparency has been astonishing. I’ve shared a number of observations in their sub forum on here.

 

[KrellFan1]

The K30 was beneath the K50 in their lineup when these were the only two K-series servers. The K30 was the S30+S40+S60 in a single chassis, where as the K50 was their flagship. Sadly the K30 got discontinued during the pandemic.

Sweet looking cables. I’ve also had cables bring about a transformation in my system, but it was those from QSA Lanedri. The improved transparency has been astonishing. I’ve shared a number of observations in their sub forum on here.

Cool with regard to those cables. Not familiar with them but no doubt fantastic given your system. Apparently several ppl who had Nordost Odin2 swapped them out for !um is ate and pocketed a nice profit selling the Nordost on the used market. They’re that good. Not exactly inexpensive but a great value. And thanks for the history lesson on the lineage of Antipodes. New to the brand but I’m very much liking what I’m hearing so far. And I just checked out Squeeze for the first time in Roon and like it a lot. I’d gone back and forth between Roon. RAAT and Squeeze with the Rendu. Preferred RAAT ultimately. But man! Somehow Squeeze exhibits some of the depth and fullness I found lacking with the Rendu. But with Antipodes I find it seems to deliver the best of both worlds. It’s got both depth and transparency. I like it.

Next step is to get all my transceivers universally aligned to single mode FinIsar SFP’s. Had my player using single mode but the server using multimode. Seems like most audiophiles prefer single mode, same as the Sonore boys who I understand now prefer single mode as the most musical between the two.

Anyway have tuned into some Agnes Obel - one of my current (and all time) favs. She’s transporting me to another dimension If you’re not familiar with her check out “Citizens of Glass“ or “Aventine.” Cheers..

 

[kennyb123]

And I just checked out Squeeze for the first time in Roon and like it a lot. I’d gone back and forth between Roon. RAAT and Squeeze with the Rendu. Preferred RAAT ultimately. But man! Somehow Squeeze exhibits some of the depth and fullness I found lacking with the Rendu. But with Antipodes I find it seems to deliver the best of both worlds. It’s got both depth and transparency. I like it.

As I've repeated ad nauseum, Squeeze (auto) provides the best sound on Antipodes, and nothing else comes close. But, I do use Roon for music discovery. I use Roon/HQPlayer as the latter provides better-sounding scaling than what's built into my DAC. With a different DAC, I could see other options being preferred. Roon/RAAT is lot better these days than it was a few years ago.

If you do experiment with Squeeze (auto), I'd be curious if you hear a difference with Roon server stopped vs running. Prior to my K30, I was using an Innuos Zenith Mk3. I found that just having Roon running, subtly harmed sound quality when using Squeeze only. That went away when I moved to the K30. I'm guessing that might have been a benefit of the way Antipodes splits the server from the player. Your K22 doesn't split things so it mirrors how the Zenith operated.

Next step is to get all my transceivers universally aligned to single mode FinIsar SFP’s. Had my player using single mode but the server using multimode. Seems like most audiophiles prefer single mode, same as the Sonore boys who I understand now prefer single mode as the most musical between the two.

Finisar SFPs in single mode are definitely the way to go. I'm using Finisar SFPs that have been discontinued. I believe they are the FTLF1324P2BTL that I'm using. I believe there are others that are now in favor, but I had evaluated a bunch of them before landing on the ones I have now, and these did the best job of disappearing.

 

[KrellFan1]

As I've repeated ad nauseum, Squeeze (auto) provides the best sound on Antipodes, and nothing else comes close. But, I do use Roon for music discovery. I use Roon/HQPlayer as the latter provides better-sounding scaling than what's built into my DAC. With a different DAC, I could see other options being preferred. Roon/RAAT is lot better these days than it was a few years ago.

If you do experiment with Squeeze (auto), I'd be curious if you hear a difference with Roon server stopped vs running. Prior to my K30, I was using an Innuos Zenith Mk3. I found that just having Roon running, subtly harmed sound quality when using Squeeze only. That went away when I moved to the K30. I'm guessing that might have been a benefit of the way Antipodes splits the server from the player. Your K22 doesn't split things so it mirrors how the Zenith operated.

Finisar SFPs in single mode are definitely the way to go. I'm using Finisar SFPs that have been discontinued. I believe they are the FTLF1324P2BTL that I'm using. I believe there are others that are now in favor, but I had evaluated a bunch of them before landing on the ones I have now, and these did the best job of disappearing.

Wow. A lot to process here. But to start, as I said earlier, both my audiophile friend and I agreed Roon RAAT sounded better with the Sonore than Squeeze/Roon.. It was more "full bodied" and "present." However, I DO believe that with the K22 Squeeze Player w/Roon absolutely sounds better than Roon RAAT. I cannot account for an explanation why the same player would sound different on one device versus another, but it is apparent. Perhaps it comes down to the the power supply of each device. Maybe Squeeze needs a "bigger, deeper" sound than what is native to the Rendu but provided by the Antipodes. It's odd for sure but the difference is obvious

I am using Squeeze Player w/Roon and I understand that listening to Squeeze Auto sounds even better. Are you confirming this? I had a one on one screen sharing with with Mark Cole (who ALSO prefers Squeeze) and he brought up the Squeezebox server on my Mac and the interface put me off. I think I would sacrifice some SQ in favor of the interface provided by Roon w/ Squeeze. HOWEVER....there is the Peng app on the Apple App Store for only $8.99 and from what I understand, this app would read the library on my Small Green Computer, OR on a K41 should I upgrade down the road. Do I have that right? I have a friend who, like you, uses Roon for music discovery but does his serious listening with Squeeze Auto as provided by the K22. So I haven't taken the full leap to Squeeze auto yet until I can confirm that the Peng app will read my library. I understand I can sign in to Qobuz just as I am signed in to Qobuz so presume the interface should be "good enough" for such listing.

Now, turning to SFP's, my Sonore came with a multimode SFP, so presently I am using a Finisar multimode in my office where my server resides (apart from everything else), and in my Sonore Optical Module and EtherREGEN I have single mode SFP - this model: FTLF1318P3BTL. Once that part arrives in a few days everything will be aligned with single mode SFP. A friend has pointed me to a specific Finisar kit from After Dark in Hong Kong who claims to have an audio grade level Finisar SFP but it's crazy expensive at close to $400 US for one transceiver and Corning fiber. Not ready to spend that much money at this time .

That said, happy to see you affirm much of what I have read and heard from friends that these days, and even the Snore boys have come around to appreciating single mode v multimode and they used prefer multimode. Anyway, soon enough I will be aligned 100% with all single mode Finisar SFP's so hopefully I'll get a bump in SQ.

In any case, once I hear back from you or any other member I'd be happy to download the Peng app if it is as simple as pointing it to my library on the internal SSD drive in my Sonic Transporter. As regards defeating the Roon app is concerned, I believe most any server can only serve up one app at a time. so if I download and install the Squeezebox server, it would REPLACE the Roon app. In fact, during my remote session with Mark Cole we did precisely this: we installed the Squeezebox Server and in order to get Roon online again we had to REMOVE the Squeezebox server. So...to me this seemed like a pain in the butt, so reconciled myself to going halfway there Squeezebox/ Roon auto. It may be a compromise I live with...unless a number of members like you insist the SQ is more than nominally better, as in SIGNIFICANTLY better with any interface with Roon.

Good convo, and thx for the feedback ...

​

 

[OLADRA]

Wow. A lot to process here. But to start, as I said earlier, both my audiophile friend and I agreed Roon RAAT sounded better with the Sonore than Squeeze/Roon.. It was more "full bodied" and "present." However, I DO believe that with the K22 Squeeze Player w/Roon absolutely sounds better than Roon RAAT. I cannot account for an explanation why the same player would sound different on one device versus another, but it is apparent. Perhaps it comes down to the the power supply of each device. Maybe Squeeze needs a "bigger, deeper" sound than what is native to the Rendu but provided by the Antipodes. It's odd for sure but the difference is obvious

I am using Squeeze Player w/Roon and I understand that listening to Squeeze Auto sounds even better. Are you confirming this? I had a one on one screen sharing with with Mark Cole (who ALSO prefers Squeeze) and he brought up the Squeezebox server on my Mac and the interface put me off. I think I would sacrifice some SQ in favor of the interface provided by Roon w/ Squeeze. HOWEVER....there is the Peng app on the Apple App Store for only $8.99 and from what I understand, this app would read the library on my Small Green Computer, OR on a K41 should I upgrade down the road. Do I have that right? I have a friend who, like you, uses Roon for music discovery but does his serious listening with Squeeze Auto as provided by the K22. So I haven't taken the full leap to Squeeze auto yet until I can confirm that the Peng app will read my library. I understand I can sign in to Qobuz just as I am signed in to Qobuz so presume the interface should be "good enough" for such listing.

Now, turning to SFP's, my Sonore came with a multimode SFP, so presently I am using a Finisar multimode in my office where my server resides (apart from everything else), and in my Sonore Optical Module and EtherREGEN I have single mode SFP - this model: FTLF1318P3BTL. Once that part arrives in a few days everything will be aligned with single mode SFP. A friend has pointed me to a specific Finisar kit from After Dark in Hong Kong who claims to have an audio grade level Finisar SFP but it's crazy expensive at close to $400 US for one transceiver and Corning fiber. Not ready to spend that much money at this time .

That said, happy to see you affirm much of what I have read and heard from friends that these days, and even the Snore boys have come around to appreciating single mode v multimode and they used prefer multimode. Anyway, soon enough I will be aligned 100% with all single mode Finisar SFP's so hopefully I'll get a bump in SQ.

In any case, once I hear back from you or any other member I'd be happy to download the Peng app if it is as simple as pointing it to my library on the internal SSD drive in my Sonic Transporter. As regards defeating the Roon app is concerned, I believe most any server can only serve up one app at a time. so if I download and install the Squeezebox server, it would REPLACE the Roon app. In fact, during my remote session with Mark Cole we did precisely this: we installed the Squeezebox Server and in order to get Roon online again we had to REMOVE the Squeezebox server. So...to me this seemed like a pain in the butt, so reconciled myself to going halfway there Squeezebox/ Roon auto. It may be a compromise I live with...unless a number of members like you insist the SQ is more than nominally better, as in SIGNIFICANTLY better with any interface with Roon.

Good convo, and thx for the feedback ...

​

All Antipodes Music Servers can have Multiple server apps enabled at the same time, with only one Player app.
There is a caveat to this, when using Roon server and Squeezelite player, do not have Squeeze server enabled at the same time, as you will have mucho problem getting Squeezelite to be found inside of Roon.
There are other great-sounding possibilities to try on the K22, such as MPD + MinimServer, using mConnect Player Lite on your iphone, which is FREE, with Tidal and Qobuz integration.