Continuing from the 'Who is the best reviewer' thread before that finally self-destructs...
Yes, you are correct that the 'elite' category has shot into the stratosphere. As it has with most things that appeal to luxury buyers in far-away places. The normal values of COGS vs End User Price tend to go a bit haywire when you start using the word 'luxury'. I guess the difficulty is that if the rich just keep getting richer, the toys they get to play with just keep getting more out of reach for us mortals. This is why it's not only about Ferrari Californians, but that suddenly there are a lot more Enzos. And Veyrons. And Maybachs, Koeneiggseggs, Lambos, etc, etc.
At the same time as the rich got richer, the squeezed middle has wiped out a lot of the traditional market. If a manufacturer is faced with designing and building a $1,000, a $10,000 and a $100,000 loudspeaker, there's an expectation that they will end up selling a lot of the cheaper ones, some of the expensive ones and a few of the really expensive ones. That isn't necessarily happening now. Especially when you take the BRIC markets into account. Now, you might get two stores in Beijing and Guangzhou selling more boxes than all of North America, Canada and Europe put together and if those stores keep asking you for more and more expensive loudspeakers for their big hitter clients, if you don't make them, someone else will. If you have finite resources in R&D, are you going to divert time and energy on making a $10,000 product that might not sell anymore, or a $100,000 model that already has an full order book? Intellectually, you should be concentrating on all sides of the market, because if and when those excluded middle market people come back, they'll need products that cater for their tastes. In reality though, you'll cross that bridge when the time comes.
As to the technology issue... Class ADH, Class XD, Tripath/'Class T'. All of these are very new and significant leaps forward. All (bar ADH) are designed for value-driven products. The difficulty in effect is that they either don't figure on most high-ender's radar screens or are moving in directions where there are people prepared to buy stuff. And this too opens up the bandwidth of audio pricing; a Trends Audio TA-10 amp may be low powered, but it delivers excellent performance for less than $150. I know you didn't want to bring digital into the equation, but something like a HRT Streamer II+ offers excellent performance without breaching the $500 barrier. How good? Use it with a powered USB hub and it is on a par with anything digital. Yes, things from traditional audio manufacturers are getting expensive, because audio is a very mature market, and because we want things locally grown, and because the people who should be buying in numbers large enough to make economies of scale work are buying headphone systems.
Disagree. All three products i highlighted were the new "elite echelon" products of yesteryear and 50% higher than there competitors at that respective time (the CJ was in HP's "best sound period" at the HE NYC show years ago). The elite echelon has gotten even more ridiculous, for what can't be argued as the same performance increase from a California to an Enzo
What's happened is manufacturers would rather sell one pair of 200k speakers than invest in 10k speakers. VAC doesn't offer a single product under 10k now---a single one!
The other thing is every other "technology" has decreased in price over the past decade, but for some reason high end audio has multiplied in price---see 70k DAC example in this thread. Name the last quantum technology leap in SS amps over the past decade---there isn't one (i'm excluding digital, which i don't consider SS).
KeithR
ps the CJ ET5 doesn't have near the appearance/build quality of an ARC Ref2 a decade ago. its an ugly duckling as well, but i digress.
Yes, you are correct that the 'elite' category has shot into the stratosphere. As it has with most things that appeal to luxury buyers in far-away places. The normal values of COGS vs End User Price tend to go a bit haywire when you start using the word 'luxury'. I guess the difficulty is that if the rich just keep getting richer, the toys they get to play with just keep getting more out of reach for us mortals. This is why it's not only about Ferrari Californians, but that suddenly there are a lot more Enzos. And Veyrons. And Maybachs, Koeneiggseggs, Lambos, etc, etc.
At the same time as the rich got richer, the squeezed middle has wiped out a lot of the traditional market. If a manufacturer is faced with designing and building a $1,000, a $10,000 and a $100,000 loudspeaker, there's an expectation that they will end up selling a lot of the cheaper ones, some of the expensive ones and a few of the really expensive ones. That isn't necessarily happening now. Especially when you take the BRIC markets into account. Now, you might get two stores in Beijing and Guangzhou selling more boxes than all of North America, Canada and Europe put together and if those stores keep asking you for more and more expensive loudspeakers for their big hitter clients, if you don't make them, someone else will. If you have finite resources in R&D, are you going to divert time and energy on making a $10,000 product that might not sell anymore, or a $100,000 model that already has an full order book? Intellectually, you should be concentrating on all sides of the market, because if and when those excluded middle market people come back, they'll need products that cater for their tastes. In reality though, you'll cross that bridge when the time comes.
As to the technology issue... Class ADH, Class XD, Tripath/'Class T'. All of these are very new and significant leaps forward. All (bar ADH) are designed for value-driven products. The difficulty in effect is that they either don't figure on most high-ender's radar screens or are moving in directions where there are people prepared to buy stuff. And this too opens up the bandwidth of audio pricing; a Trends Audio TA-10 amp may be low powered, but it delivers excellent performance for less than $150. I know you didn't want to bring digital into the equation, but something like a HRT Streamer II+ offers excellent performance without breaching the $500 barrier. How good? Use it with a powered USB hub and it is on a par with anything digital. Yes, things from traditional audio manufacturers are getting expensive, because audio is a very mature market, and because we want things locally grown, and because the people who should be buying in numbers large enough to make economies of scale work are buying headphone systems.