Is Physical Media Still Relevant?

[Thomas.Dennehy]

This topic attempts to unite several parallel threads, including how many bits are relevant, the complexity of digital music, and whether this title or that title is worth the asking price on the open market.

A recent survey in Norway, Sweden and Denmark concluded that fewer than 10% of respondents believed they would still be buying physical media in 2-4 years. I suspect that the 10% is well-represented in this forum. I'm interested in why, particularly among collectors of new and used vinyl.

So:

1. Would a high-resolution digital transfer (at least 24-bit/96KHz) of one of your LPs played on your equipment, set up to your exact specifications, be as valuable as the LP itself?

2a. If not, what is it about the physical media that defines its value? Is it the content, or the object?

2b. If so, would that change how you view collecting in the future? Suppose you could buy a treasured title in Near Mint condition, record its content as you personally would play it, then re-sell to another collector. Would that take acquisition cost out of the decision?


TGD

 

[amirm]

Physical media for music is completely obsolete. It is still selling because there are a few billion CD players out there in all manner of devices from cars to home stereos. Technology and infrastructure is here to handle non-disc media in every form and fashion at little cost. Fact that we sill melt and stamp CDs is very arcane and wasteful.

 

[Thomas.Dennehy]

I agree that there is no reason to buy another audio CD ever again.

 

[mep]

So:

1. Would a high-resolution digital transfer (at least 24-bit/96KHz) of one of your LPs played on your equipment, set up to your exact specifications, be as valuable as the LP itself?

No.

2a. If not, what is it about the physical media that defines its value? Is it the content, or the object?

It’s both.

2b. If so, would that change how you view collecting in the future?

No.

Suppose you could buy a treasured title in Near Mint condition, record its content as you personally would play it, then re-sell to another collector. Would that take acquisition cost out of the decision? TGD

No again. I dare say that most of who collect LPs and love the sound of the good ones and play them back regularly are not interested in converting them to digital and reselling them. It defeats the purpose of owning analog source material. Once you convert it to digital, it’s no longer analog obviously. And bye-bye beautiful artwork you can actually hold in your hands and read the liner notes to boot.

 

[treitz3]

Hello, Thomas Dennehy. To me, physical media is relevant. I would hate to see the the demise of "ownership". I personally love liner notes, don't mind the room it takes to store the medium and love actually being able to resell that said physical media again at a later date, if I so desire [If ever]. In many cases, the sound also has a major influence in the decision. My collecting for the future has nothing to do with the purchase as all of my mediums and gear will one day belong to my son, so that maybe he can plant his own seed for a tree in the forest that is seemingly dwindling.

That, and besides an act of God or a complete loss in a fire? I don't have to worry about backing it up.

 

[amirm]

Do people still get enjoyment out of holding the art? I hear you Mark and remember this is a big argument in the old days. But today? I love this display than any LP cover:

It actually is nicer in practice as it softly animates.

 

[mep]

Physical media for music is completely obsolete.

Amir-I don’t agree with that statement unless you clarify it to say that physical media for digital music is obsolete. But then again, I guess it depends on how you define “obsolete.” People that love LPs obviously have to have them in order to play them. LPs are not obsolete in the sense that we still have pressing plants stamping out *new* LPs every day.

 

[amirm]

Yes Mark, I was talking about digital. Should have said that .

 

[JackD201]

I like having my digital physical media. I like holding it, looking at it and just knowing it's there if anything goes wrong with the servers and back ups. Security blanket? In part yes.

As for the LPs, I listen with multiple arms and carts and often do adjustments on the fly depending on my mood. I can't do that with a file even if I did, which I don't, think sound exactly the same. That's just me though, if archiving their vinyl after recording like my Mom did (that's why I inherited her collection near mint) brings happiness to them, I'm happy too. Please sell me your LPs for cheap. LOL.

 

[FrantzM]

Do people still get enjoyment out of holding the art? I hear you Mark and remember this is a big argument in the old days. But today? I love this display than any LP cover:

It actually is nicer in practice as it softly animates.

Physical media for music is completely obsolete. It is still selling because there are a few billion CD players out there in all manner of devices from cars to home stereos. Technology and infrastructure is here to handle non-disc media in every form and fashion at little cost. Fact that we sill melt and stamp CDs is very arcane and wasteful.

I , however, continue to buy CD if to rip them instantly . Physical media is obsolete. There will be some who will continue to listen to physical media and among them a few who will contend that physical digital media is superior to their copy .. A mere blip.... insignificant ...
Most of the time downloaded music have no liner notes, even if the coresponding physical medium has these...I would have loved that liners be in a digital format however. it would be great to have a tablet streaming the liner notes while listening to music ... It is possible but rarely done.

 

[RogerD]

Physical media for music is completely obsolete. It is still selling because there are a few billion CD players out there in all manner of devices from cars to home stereos. Technology and infrastructure is here to handle non-disc media in every form and fashion at little cost. Fact that we sill melt and stamp CDs is very arcane and wasteful.

Everybody can ship me all their physical media,especially all those shaded dogs,mercury's,columbia 6 eye's,ect......

 

[treitz3]

Do people still get enjoyment out of holding the art?

Yes, sir! I pulled them out on two CD's I have just a few hours ago. It's not "all" about the art as well. There are things one can learn about said albums and artists that are there. They are in your hand as you listen and you don't need technology which might or might not lead you to the same printed material. You just listen and read, if you so choose.

A good example for me would be listening to Little Feat's "Waiting for Columbus" live album. Listening to it would be one thing...especially on Mo-Fi's 24K edition. Listening while every once in a while, glancing down to see the images of what's on stage [and very well recorded] just brings the entire performance to a slightly different level. You see and read just how many performers there are. In other words, as a novice listener to this album, one might appreciate the many band members performing on that concert....along with the names they are called......such as the "Bag Man". One learns of how many members there are within the horn section when they notice, for the first time, that the horn section sounds great.

If you don't see what it is I'm getting at, I can appreciate your stance. There is nothing wrong with it. I can only hope that you might appreciate mine. When it comes to music, I don't want to "Google" something or research into liner notes that may or may not be available. All I would like to do is enjoy the music.....

....and on just so occasion I'd like to take a glimpse of the liner notes I own, I'd like to be able to do just that. Without interrupting the music. Another observation if you will allow? My original liner notes will still be here 40 years from now. could you say the same thing with "online" liner notes that may or may not be available today?

I don't know about you but I hope my son appreciates them as much as I.

 

[JackD201]

Everybody can ship me all their physical media,especially all those shaded dogs,mercury's,columbia 6 eye's,ect......

I reserved first! LOL!

 

[vinylphilemag]

Of course physical media are still relevant, whether analogue or digital! Why? The analogue reasons speak for themselves. As for digital, I would consider physical media the ultimate backup. It also is much easier to lend to friends, and so on.

And before anyone asks: no, I'm not parting with my record collection!

 

[Bruce B]

The last couple of shows I've been to, people have handed me more thumb drives than optical discs to play for them! A few even brought R2R tape!

 

[amirm]

Yes, sir! I pulled them out on two CD's I have just a few hours ago. It's not "all" about the art as well. There are things one can learn about said albums and artists that are there. They are in your hand as you listen and you don't need technology which might or might not lead you to the same printed material. You just listen and read, if you so choose.

A good example for me would be listening to Little Feat's "Waiting for Columbus" live album. Listening to it would be one thing...especially on Mo-Fi's 24K edition. Listening while every once in a while, glancing down to see the images of what's on stage [and very well recorded] just brings the entire performance to a slightly different level. You see and read just how many performers there are. In other words, as a novice listener to this album, one might appreciate the many band members performing on that concert....along with the names they are called......such as the "Bag Man". One learns of how many members there are within the horn section when they notice, for the first time, that the horn section sounds great.

If you don't see what it is I'm getting at, I can appreciate your stance. There is nothing wrong with it. I can only hope that you might appreciate mine. When it comes to music, I don't want to "Google" something or research into liner notes that may or may not be available. All I would like to do is enjoy the music.....

....and on just so occasion I'd like to take a glimpse of the liner notes I own, I'd like to be able to do just that. Without interrupting the music. Another observation if you will allow? My original liner notes will still be here 40 years from now. could you say the same thing with "online" liner notes that may or may not be available today?

I don't know about you but I hope my son appreciates them as much as I.

For the information part of it, I get all that and then some with my media player. I can drill into far more information and far faster than I can with the paper stuck in the CD case. In addition, Zune not only shows the album art, but also newer and different pictures of the artist in screen saver mode.

So what differs between us is that I don't associate value to holding the folded up paper in the CD case.

 

[DonH50]

My system is not networked and there is no PC in the room (well, except when I am taking measurements). I still buy and listen to CDs. Setting up a server, getting it all networked without glitches, and ripping hundreds of CDs holds me back from going media-less. I have knowledgable friends who have set it all up with no issues at all, and others who have been struggling for a couple of years to get a system that would stream without glitches. And so forth. They have also had problems finding good copies of some old (and some newer) music, though they can always rip the CD. Finding a viable solution for transferring old vinyl is another issue (see later comment).

Bottom line is I'm too lazy and cheap to set up a music server, and like holding the CDs and reading the covers.

I am not addressing vinyl as it appears to me that it is outside the scope of this thread. Besides, I still haven't set up my old TT, and have only a few hundred of the thousands of LPs I used to have.

 

[microstrip]

(...) Most of the time downloaded music have no liner notes, even if the coresponding physical medium has these...I would have loved that liners be in a digital format however. it would be great to have a tablet streaming the liner notes while listening to music ... It is possible but rarely done.

It is something I can not understand :
How do you manage to listen to classical, or most jazz without liner notes? How can you defend and accept such a format? Just for the convenience ?

 

[LL21]

ACtually, for me, CDs are more a focus than ever before. Why? I am buying every single album i ever wanted remastered, FIM, MFSL, you name it...for an average of 3-8 bucks each. Its just cheap compared to almost any other medium i can find. And while i could sit here and optimize by going 24/96 on the 'relatively few' albums i would want from the selection...i choose to enjoy my system which plays (imho) very musically satisfying redbook (Zanden). And for 3 bucks, I cannot buy the MP3 for that!

Plus, I tend to play albums thru start to finish anyway, because i tend to work while listening all day, so i enjoy a straight hour of an album and 'migrating' over the course of the day from quartets thru concertos thru symphonic to large scale choral, thru guitar thru blues to chill, to hip hop, to jazz.

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

My system is not networked and there is no PC in the room (well, except when I am taking measurements). I still buy and listen to CDs. Setting up a server, getting it all networked without glitches, and ripping hundreds of CDs holds me back from going media-less. I have knowledgable friends who have set it all up with no issues at all, and others who have been struggling for a couple of years to get a system that would stream without glitches. And so forth. They have also had problems finding good copies of some old (and some newer) music, though they can always rip the CD. Finding a viable solution for transferring old vinyl is another issue (see later comment).

Bottom line is I'm too lazy and cheap to set up a music server, and like holding the CDs and reading the covers.

I am not addressing vinyl as it appears to me that it is outside the scope of this thread. Besides, I still haven't set up my old TT, and have only a few hundred of the thousands of LPs I used to have.

This is pretty much my situation as well.