Magico Owners: Any tips for M3 setup?

[Lee]

Been working to refine setup on a friend's pair of M3s. Using Jim Smith's formula for speaker placement but have a couple of questions:

1. How much, if any, toe-in recommended?

2. How far into the room is a good starting point?

Any suggestions appreciated.

 

[Audire]

On our M3s we have very little toe-in (maybe 5-8%). We keep our M3s app 3 ft from the wall. I’m centered on the TT in the pic! Make sure the rear screws are properly adjusted with Magico’s supplied wrench. The sound is amazing! Don’t take out the pins for a month or so … until your final adjustment!

 

[Lee]

On our M3s we have very little toe-in (maybe 5-8%). We keep our M3s app 3 ft from the wall. I’m centered on the TT in the pic! Make sure the rear screws are properly adjusted with Magico’s supplied wrench. The sound is amazing! Don’t take out the pins for a month or so … until your final adjustment!

View attachment 109741

Thanks. How did you arrive at the three feet distance?

 

[Audire]

Thanks. How did you arrive at the three feet distance?

Trail and error. We began at 36”. We just measured. The MPods are 66” and 60” from the wall on each speaker. So, a 6” toe-in. I knew my eyesight was off (I’m literally going blind), but not by that much!

 

[Lee]

How far apart are your speakers? How big is your room?

 

[Audire]

How far apart are your speakers? How big is your room?

80” apart - MPod to MPod. Our room at this time is 20x18x12.

I’m supposed to get some more info on a new room next month. It will be app. 32x20x12... But we’re not there yet! If the builders’ estimates are reasonable we will begin construction. Needless to say our present space isn’t ideal.

 

[PeterA]

Been working to refine setup on a friend's pair of M3s. Using Jim Smith's formula for speaker placement but have a couple of questions:

1. How much, if any, toe-in recommended?

2. How far into the room is a good starting point?

Any suggestions appreciated.

Lee, I had the Magico Q3s for years. I walked from the front wall to the back wall talking to myself and listening for when my voice sounded most natural and balanced. That’s where I located the speakers. They were roughly 1/3 into the room. Then I located the listening seat for the smoothest bass response. Jim Smith did that in my room with measurements. I did it years later with the Q3 by listening.

I then moved my speakers incrementally front to back for bass and side to side for midrange and solid focused center image. I eventually got rid of toe in. Better balanced sound and livelier presentation. It has to do with balancing direct sound with reflected sound and the dispersion pattern of the speakers and how the room is proportioned and furnished. It’s more difficult to position the speakers without toeing them in, but the ultimate result was more natural sound at least in my case. It took a lot of time.

Jim Smith’s 83% is simply a reference and guideline. Just like Michael Fremer’s 92%. Fine tune from there for most natural sound based on live instruments if that is your target.

 

[Lee]

Lee, I had the Magico Q3s for years. I walked from the front wall to the back wall talking to myself and listening for when my voice sounded most natural and balanced. That’s where I located the speakers. They were roughly 1/3 into the room. Then I located the listening seat for the smoothest bass response. Jim Smith did that in my room with measurements. I did it years later with the Q3 by listening.

I then moved my speakers incrementally front to back for bass and side to side for midrange and solid focused center image. I eventually got rid of toe in. Better balanced sound and livelier presentation. It has to do with balancing direct sound with reflected sound and the dispersion pattern of the speakers and how the room is proportioned and furnished. It’s more difficult to position the speakers without toeing them in, but the ultimate result was more natural sound at least in my case. It took a lot of time.

Jim Smith’s 83% is simply a reference and guideline. Just like Michael Fremer’s 92%. Fine tune from there for most natural sound based on live instruments if that is your target.

Thanks! That’s consistent with Jim’s work at my house.

 

[Lee]

80” apart - MPod to MPod. Our room at this time is 20x18x12.

I’m supposed to get some more info on a new room next month. It will be app. 32x20x12... But we’re not there yet! If the builders’ estimates are reasonable we will begin construction. Needless to say our present space isn’t ideal.

Thanks…and congratulations on the new room!

 

[TDX]

How far away do you sit from the speakers? So the distance between seats and the speakers.

 

[Audire]

How far away do you sit from the speakers? So the distance between seats and the speakers.

I’m app 10’-

 

[TDX]

I’m app 10’-

Ok thanks. We have similar setup and I was sitting a bit further back. I plan to move closer this week and reduce a tiny bit of toe in.

 

[Kingsrule]

For the M6 the speakers they need to be absolutely vertical and the rake needs to be exactly the same on both sides.
Not much ability to make these adjustments with MPods, I use CM LS footers. Toe is much less than Magico recommends but I think thats pretty much room dependent.

 

[TDX]

For the M6 the speakers they need to be absolutely vertical and the rake needs to be exactly the same on both sides.
Not much ability to make these adjustments with MPods, I use CM LS footers. Toe is much less than Magico recommends but I think thats pretty much room dependent.

So nearly no toe in?

 

[ecwl]

So nearly no toe in?

I can’t speak to M6 but I would assume M2 and M3 are similar in this aspect. If you look at M2 measurements from Stereophile and Hi-Fi Critic, the frequency response at various horizontal angles are quite similar. So toe-in matters significantly less which has been my dealer’s and my personal experience.

Interestingly this doesn’t apply to the A series speakers or the S series speakers based on measurements and experience. Not sure what they did with the M series that changed the horizontal dispersion pattern. I’m actually curious to see measurements of the new S3 to see if the dispersion pattern looks more like the S series or the M series.

 

[Lee]

I’m app 10’-

I wonder if the speakers are set up properly as your ratio is approximately 80inches/120 inches for a result of 0.67. You really should shoot for 0.82 to 0.84.

To get to the better placement, you are should listen at 8 feet away or move the speakers farther apart.

 

[Audire]

I wonder if the speakers are set up properly as your ratio is approximately 80inches/120 inches for a result of 0.67. You really should shoot for 0.82 to 0.84.

To get to the better placement, you are should listen at 8 feet away or move the speakers farther apart.

As I stated it was an estimate. My back is out or I’d get up and measure it. (My est earlier in this thread was off as well). But they sound amazing as they are.

 

[ecwl]

I wonder if the speakers are set up properly as your ratio is approximately 80inches/120 inches for a result of 0.67. You really should shoot for 0.82 to 0.84.

I think the 0.82-0.84 or 0.87 rule is more for most speakers with the typical horizontal dispersion pattern where if the tweeter is directly firing at you, you get a lot more treble and when you start toeing out the speaker more and more, then the treble level gets less and less compared to midrange and bass.

But if the horizontal dispersion pattern is pretty even, you actually have more leeway in terms of the speaker distances and toe-in. However, when the horizontal dispersion pattern is pretty even, you have to pay more attention to reflections off the side walls because most speakers would have significantly less treble hitting the side walls compared to the Magico M series with its more even horizontal dispersion.

 

[Lee]

I think the 0.82-0.84 or 0.87 rule is more for most speakers with the typical horizontal dispersion pattern where if the tweeter is directly firing at you, you get a lot more treble and when you start toeing out the speaker more and more, then the treble level gets less and less compared to midrange and bass.

But if the horizontal dispersion pattern is pretty even, you actually have more leeway in terms of the speaker distances and toe-in. However, when the horizontal dispersion pattern is pretty even, you have to pay more attention to reflections off the side walls because most speakers would have significantly less treble hitting the side walls compared to the Magico M series with its more even horizontal dispersion.

No, that’s not entirely correct. Jim Smith has set up thousands of systems with many types of speakers and this seems to be a universal rule on placement. It’s rare that you would be so far off that ratio and get musically engaging sound.

 

[2fastdriving]

I wonder if the speakers are set up properly as your ratio is approximately 80inches/120 inches for a result of 0.67. You really should shoot for 0.82 to 0.84.

To get to the better placement, you are should listen at 8 feet away or move the speakers farther apart.

I think he said 80 inches mpod to mpod. So, if I am understanding that correctly, I believe tweeter to tweeter it would be probably another foot.