Videos of Acoustically-Coupled Audio Recordings

[morricab]

Peter, I have three turntable systems at home, a Micro-Seiki (string drive), a Transrotor (belt drive), and a custom rebuilt Rek-O-Kut (idler rim drive). You can see all the turntables and hear the Rek-O-Kut idler on my system page here in WBF:

Carlos269 Systems Page

I just don’t listen to my turntables that often now a days.

Yes, I’m tired of listening to Truly also. I also recorded some videos last night of music I enjoy, on all three system configurations:

This song is more what I enjoy listening to along with all my other counterculture music.

The Fertin system sounds quite recessed on this track...voices less clear and the presence of the synthesizers is muted.

 

[Argonaut]

The Beautiful life track is interesting because the Lampizator (which model?) is quite dramatic and colorful and the ValveDac (is this a TotalDAC?) is more muted and "matter of fact". Perhaps the Lampizator is having bigger dynamic swings as well, although the track is not very dynamic on the whole.

I agree that the soundstage as a whole and the placement of some instrumentation within it were brought to the fore and produced an ‘energised’ performance , however purely referencing the vocal for my part I thought the ( ValveDAC ? ) produced a more accurate , natural sounding and believable corporeal rendition, particularly the inflections and phrasing of the artist , the LampizatOr rather Burnishing the vocal along with the rest of the elements of the track. Imho ymmv etc etc .

 

[tima]

No it's not really difficult to reproduce. However, it does create a nice live feeling.

So much reverb masks a sense of natural ambience.

 

[morricab]

I agree that the soundstage as a whole and the placement of some instrumentation within it were brought to the fore and produced an ‘energised’ performance , however purely referencing the vocal for my part I thought the ( ValveDAC ? ) produced a more accurate , natural sounding and believable corporeal rendition, particularly the inflections and phrasing of the artist , the LampizatOr rather Burnishing the vocal along with the rest of the elements of the track. Imho ymmv etc etc .

Could be but i would consider overall the Lampizator more "interesting" to listen to for this track at least.

 

[wil]

Don't like the music really but the sound is quite good.

So much reverb masks a sense of natural ambience.

For me, the more processed music we often hear in vids (particularly show vids) is useless for gaining any insight into what a particular system can offer.

In contrast, for example, the Fanfare recordings on this thread show live music, with dynamics and complex harmonics in a real acoustic space.

If a system makes this music sound processed, then the system is screwed up.

 

[hopkins]

Could be but i would consider overall the Lampizator more "interesting" to listen to for this track at least.

Small differences in a DAC's output level or even perhaps impedance differences could also explain this ?

 

[bonzo75]

Small differences in a DAC's output level or even perhaps impedance differences could also explain this ?

The Lampi is a DSD Dac. The DSD dacs were level 4, much below the DHT level ones, even though Carlos says his is beefed up. The DHT dacs you can change the output, impedance, and colour/transparency range much more by changing the DHT tubes

 

[wil]

For me, the more processed music we often hear in vids (particularly show vids) is useless for gaining any insight into what a particular system can offer.

In contrast, for example, the Fanfare recordings on this thread show live music, with dynamics and complex harmonics in a real acoustic space.

If a system makes this music sound processed, then the system is screwed up.

Another factor, that makes comparing classical recordings tricky (beyond different mastering‘s) are different performances.

The flat Wadax (dac) video might be the result of a flat recording (among other things) compared to a lively recording that Carlos used.

@Carlos269 , can you share the Qobuz recording you used in your videos?

 

[Carlos269]

A number of interesting comments in the latest videos of my systems. I’ve been busy but want to address some of them as they are very good comments and assessments:

The Beautiful life track is interesting because the Lampizator (which model?) is quite dramatic and colorful and the ValveDac (is this a TotalDAC?) is more muted and "matter of fact". Perhaps the Lampizator is having bigger dynamic swings as well, although the track is not very dynamic on the whole.

Brad the LampizatOr is a custom upgraded version of the DSD-Only dac that LampizatOr put out a number of years ago, not a recent dac but it was updated and upgraded in 2021 by Lukazs and his team in Poland. The ValveDac is a custom DIY dac based on Marcel Van De Gevel’s white paper on Linear Audio. What makes the ValveDac technically interesting and special is that it is the only dac design in the world that uses the tubes as part of the conversion process. My ValveDac is the Raw-DSD only variant.

I agree with you that the LampizatOr sounds more exciting, dramatic, and colorful. It is the “matter of fact” neutrality, and organic sound that draws me to the ValveDac.

I first heard Fertins at Black Forest Audio in Germany that were augmented with huge Onken boxes with 15 inch woofers and driven by an all Kondon system. That was an eye opener on the potential of high sensitivity and SET amps! I find this system a bit less open than the previous one but it has a warm natural ease that is nice. I see you are using a Transcendent Sound 300B preamp. I have looked at this a number of times and would value your opinion on it.

The Fertin 20EX silver-voicecoil fieldcoil drivers are exceptional and clearly the best of the three sets of fullrange field coil drivers that I own, the other two being Supravox and Atelier-Rullit.

I purposely handicapped the Fertin based system to prove a point to Al (Al M.). The other systems demonstrate greater inner and low level detail because they are using DSD512 from HQPLAYER as their source material, same Tidal file being streamed to all three 3 dacs in these videos. The Fertin’s would pull away with HQPLAYER.

Carlos, I prefer the feildcoil videos, but am getting tired of "Truly". The Fanfair comparison is quite telling in the bass definition and horn character. There is good clarity and the sound is pretty balanced. It does not look like you have any vinyl gear. Did you abandon it for digital only?

Agree with the bass; however, i find the other system has much more color and tonal differentiation in the horns and percussion. You can more easily hear the contribution from the different instruments in the orchestra that is slightly homogenized in the Fertin system.

The Fertin system sounds quite recessed on this track...voices less clear and the presence of the synthesizers is muted.

This is a topic that I have addressed previously in PeterA’ Natural Sound thread: I think that the key to what Peter refers to as ”Natural Sound” is rooted in the high-frequency contour. I agree with Peter that the high frequencies spectral content and high frequency energy produced by most High-End Audio systems is not accurate and representative of what we hear in real life. The real world offers way more absorption and many of those high frequencies captured by closed up microphones don’t have much chance of reaching our ears in nature. Consider this, the higher the frequency the more directional it becomes, how can our ears capture all the sound from a wide stage with the level of precision that a well recorded, with close microphones, can render? Stereo systems often sound bigger and greater than what we hear in real life. Peter’s goal, as I understand it, is not to reproduce the recordings but to reproduce real life. My Ferin 20EX fieldcoil drivers is so far the only fullrange driver that I have own or listen to that can go as high as it is needed by me and which does not require the assistance of a super tweeter!

 

[Carlos269]

I see you are using a Transcendent Sound 300B preamp. I have looked at this a number of times and would value your opinion on it.

The Transcendent Sound “Masterpiece” 300B DHT preamp was not in the Fertin system chain. The dCS ELGA-Plus dac was driving the “Turbo 45” SET amplifier directly on these videos.

I strongly believe that the Transcendent Sound product are some of the more understated components in the High-End, primarily because they are offered as kits but also often overlooked because of their low and reasonable costs. I own two Transcended Sound preamps: the “Grounded Grid” and the “Masterpiece” and two Transcendent Sound amplifiers: the “T-16” OTL and the 1.5-watts “SE-OTL”. Interestingly, I find that the “SE-OTL” and the 5-watts First-Watt F2J are the only two amps that come close to equaling Single-Ended-Triode amplifiers. The Transcendent Sound products are stellar performers compared to others regardless of costs.

 

[Carlos269]

I agree that the soundstage as a whole and the placement of some instrumentation within it were brought to the fore and produced an ‘energised’ performance , however purely referencing the vocal for my part I thought the ( ValveDAC ? ) produced a more accurate , natural sounding and believable corporeal rendition, particularly the inflections and phrasing of the artist , the LampizatOr rather Burnishing the vocal along with the rest of the elements of the track. Imho ymmv etc etc .

Spot on. I agree and your characterization matches my own assessment in the room. The reproduction of human voices is the Litmus test for me for any High-End Audio system that aims to sound real.

 

[hopkins]

This is a topic that I have addressed previously in PeterA’ Natural Sound thread: I think that the key to what Peter refers to as ”Natural Sound” is rooted in the high-frequency contour. I agree with Peter that the high frequencies spectral content and high frequency energy produced by most High-End Audio systems is not accurate and representative of what we hear in real life. The real world offers way more absorption and many of those high frequencies captured by closed up microphones don’t have much chance of reaching our ears in nature. Consider this, the higher the frequency the more directional it becomes, how can our ears capture all the sound from a wide stage with the level of precision that a well recorded, with close microphones, can render? Stereo systems often sound bigger and greater than what we hear in real life. Peter’s goal, as I understand it, is not to reproduce the recordings but to reproduce real life. My Ferin 20EX fieldcoil drivers is so far the only fullrange driver that I have own or listen to that can go as high as it is needed by me and which does not require the assistance of a super tweeter!

The problem with most full range drivers is the peak in between 2-4 khz, not only the extension above that, and I am not so sure that the Fertin is immune to such issues, one would need to see a frequency response curve.

How these peaks and dips affect the results is not so obvious.

Anyway, having speakers offering good high frequency performance is not a guarantee of "realism" (or "natural" sound). That would be too easy

The reverse may also be true - and you can confirm that with the many audiophiles going for vintage full range drivers that have limited upper frequency extension.

 

[Carlos269]

Another factor, that makes comparing classical recordings tricky (beyond different mastering‘s) are different performances.

The flat Wadax (dac) video might be the result of a flat recording (among other things) compared to a lively recording that Carlos used.

@Carlos269 , can you share the Qobuz recording you used in your videos?

Here is the link to the Tidal track streamed on the videos

 

[hopkins]

The problem with most full range drivers is the peak in between 2-4 khz, not only the extension above that, and I am not so sure that the Fertin is immune to such issues, one would need to see a frequency response curve.

How these peaks and dips affect the results is not so obvious.

Anyway, having speakers offering good high frequency performance is not a guarantee of "realism" (or "natural" sound). That would be too easy

The reverse may also be true - and you can confirm that with the many audiophiles going for vintage full range drivers that have limited upper frequency extension.

Here is a frequency response curve of those Fertin drivers, found on DIYAudio:

 

[Carlos269]

The problem with most full range drivers is the peak in between 2-4 khz, not only the extension above that, and I am not so sure that the Fertin is immune to such issues, one would need to see a frequency response curve.

How these peaks and dips affect the results is not so obvious.

Anyway, having speakers offering good high frequency performance is not a guarantee of "realism" (or "natural" sound). That would be too easy

The reverse may also be true - and you can confirm that with the many audiophiles going for vintage full range drivers that have limited upper frequency extension.

Peter’s Vitavox speakers are not based on full-range drivers. My comments were in general and not relegated to full-range drivers.

 

[Carlos269]

Here is a frequency response curve of those Fertin drivers, found on DIYAudio:

Very good. My Supravox fieldcoil full range drivers have a similar response curve but do not sound as extended.

You are focusing in my comments to much a full-range drivers. My comments here and on Peter’s thread were general comments.

If you want to hear an example of ear-piercing high-frequencies reproduction that is passed off as HIgh-End Audio today please visit Jay’s Audio Lab and you will hear what I mean instantly.

 

[hopkins]

Peter’s Vitavox speakers are not based on full-range drivers. My comments were in general and not relegated to full-range drivers.

No problem, I was replying also specifically to your comment regarding the Fertin being the only full range driver offering sufficient high frequency extension to not require a tweeter. I just wanted to point out another aspect (the upper midrange shout) which I personally find difficult with many FR. I understand that does not apply to PeterA's system, and if you have that under control yourself, it's all good...

 

[Ron Resnick]

I think that the key to what Peter refers to as ”Natural Sound” is rooted in the high-frequency contour. I agree with Peter that the high frequencies spectral content and high frequency energy produced by most High-End Audio systems is not . . . representative of what we hear in real life. The real world offers way more absorption and many of those high frequencies captured by closed up microphones don’t have much chance of reaching our ears in nature.

+1

 

[PeterA]

This is a topic that I have addressed previously in PeterA’ Natural Sound thread: I think that the key to what Peter refers to as ”Natural Sound” is rooted in the high-frequency contour. I agree with Peter that the high frequencies spectral content and high frequency energy produced by most High-End Audio systems is not accurate and representative of what we hear in real life. The real world offers way more absorption and many of those high frequencies captured by closed up microphones don’t have much chance of reaching our ears in nature. Consider this, the higher the frequency the more directional it becomes, how can our ears capture all the sound from a wide stage with the level of precision that a well recorded, with close microphones, can render? Stereo systems often sound bigger and greater than what we hear in real life. Peter’s goal, as I understand it, is not to reproduce the recordings but to reproduce real life. My Ferin 20EX fieldcoil drivers is so far the only fullrange driver that I have own or listen to that can go as high as it is needed by me and which does not require the assistance of a super tweeter!

Carlos, I appreciate this comment. I had not given much thought as to why what I hear from many systems does not remind me of what I hear live, but the presentations of the high frequencies is certainly a big part of it. I wrote in a different thread that I never think about high frequency extension when going to hear live music at Boston Symphony Hall. (I marvel at the clarity above all else when actually trying to understand the sound. I also appreciate the dynamics and sense of balance and energy.) Yet, when I hear a recording of classical music, some systems draw my attention to the high frequencies. This emphasis on the highs and the resultant lack of balance to the sound is what prevents these systems from sounding natural to me.

People have commented that my speakers are rolled off and suggested that I add some kind of super tweeter. I guess they prefer a measurement that looks flat out to 20K Hz.

My goal is for my system to recreate an experience similar to the one I remember having when listening to live music. You are right that it is not to reproduce the recordings per se, but I do want the system to reflect differences between various recordings, just as live music reflects differences between different violins being played by different people in different spaces. I do not want my system to homogenize the sound, but to clearly deliver the information embedded in the recording and present a natural sound in the room for that live sound experience. A big part of that is to not emphasis the high frequencies on each recording.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Here is a frequency response curve of those Fertin drivers, found on DIYAudio: