Grand Prix Audio Monaco 3.0 turntable

[Argonaut]

Roughly 25% more than the 2.0.

@tima … I have no doubt that the TT will play 33rpm and 45rpm records adequately well , I was ideally looking for an emoji in the menu that reflected my amazement ( not exactly in a positive fashion ) at the RRP superficially based on the images of the product.


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[bazelio]

Exactly, but I hope it will measure around or less than %1 with 3150Hz.

It better be well less than 1%.

 

[Barry]

It better be well less than 1%.

I'll say! For example, with a room temperature ranging in low 70s, and a warm-up of about an hour, my TW Acustic Raven Anniversary with 3-motor pod has a typical speed variation of +/- .003 revolutions at 33.333 over 30 seconds as measured by the Phoenix Engineering Road Runner tach. I think that's pretty good for the price of the TT.

It would be even nicer if the speed adjustment buttons didn't make such large corrections. Centering speed on 33.333 takes a lot of fiddling, but I can't hear the difference as long as I get close.

 

[PeterA]

I'll say! For example, with a room temperature ranging in low 70s, and a warm-up of about an hour, my TW Acustic Raven Anniversary with 3-motor pod has a typical speed variation of +/- .003 revolutions at 33.333 over 30 seconds as measured by the Phoenix Engineering Road Runner tach. I think that's pretty good for the price of the TT.

It would be even nicer if the speed adjustment buttons didn't make such large corrections. Centering speed on 33.333 takes a lot of fiddling, but I can't hear the difference as long as I get close.

Can you slightly adjust speed by altering belt tension by nudging the motor pod very slightly closer or further away? I was able to get miniscule speed changes by doing that with my belt table, but tension can affect sonics dramatically.

Sorry, this is about direct drive tables.

 

[Barry]

I was talking about speed variation in general terms, but it was a hard left turn to be sure. Back to our regularly scheduled program!

 

[tima]

@tima … I have no doubt that the TT will play 33rpm and 45rpm records adequately well , I was ideally looking for an emoji in the menu that reflected my amazement ( not exactly in a positive fashion ) at the RRP superficially based on the images of the product.


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Yeah, the pictures I posted are something of a nonplus to me. These are the very first released by GPA and do not give the table itself its due. But what the Monaco is about is leading edge technology under the covers. It has never been a catwalk table.

The jump in price from the 1.5 to the 2.0 was a greater than 50% increase. Sonically it was warranted, imo. I don't know what we'll hear from the 3.0. Based on the past I expect to be amazed. We'll see.

 

[tima]

The peak deviation from a perfect 33 1/3rpm rotational speed for the Monaco 2.0 is typically better than 0.0001% (1ppm) -- that’s actual platter motion, not a quartz-locked specification. I expect the 3.0 to offer improvement over that.

Imo, it is difficult to grasp the sonic influence of stable accuracy from numbers. Typically some say "can I really hear the difference between n and n+1?' Wow and flutter is not the place to look for improvements. They proved unmeasureable on both the 1.5 and 2.0.

This is from my 2.0. I've seen better. But AM and phone gyroscopes are not going to give actual platter speed. I have no interest in debating on this and prefer Alvin explain the technology of rotational measurement.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Roughly 25% more than the 2.0.

As long as it's 25% more speed accurate as a result.

 

[tima]

As long as it's 25% more speed accurate as a result.

Then you'll be a buyer? lol

It takes some pretty sophisticated equipment to get more zeroes to the right of the decimal point.
We'll see.

 

[spiritofmusic]

25% more likely to buy.

 

[jfrech]

View attachment 96129

View attachment 96130

That is one big box. Has to be the battery version? And still that's a lot batteries. I am hoping there is a smaller box for the non battery version. And a color choice on the front panel !

 

[mtemur]

Wow and flutter is not the place to look for improvements. They proved unmeasureable on both the 1.5 and 2.0.

Unfortunately no turntable was ever made with unmeasurable wow&flutter. Every mechanical rotor/platter on an analog playback machine has a wow&flutter figure. It can be very small or unnoticeable but still measurable. It’s inherent with mechanical motor-platter systems. Only digital playback systems with buffer or memory have unmeasurable wow&flutter. They can reproduce sound without any fluctuations in speed.

If you want to hear how your turntable’s wow&flutter sound like you can simply play AM test record’s 3150Hz track. You will hear speed deviation as shift in frequency. This shift in frequency is total wow&flutter of lathe and your turntable. Check by yourself and decide if it has an impact on sound or not.

You can use other test records but make sure their spindle holes are in dead center. AM test record is good in that regard.

 

[tima]

Unfortunately no turntable was ever made with unmeasurable wow&flutter. Every mechanical rotor/platter on an analog playback machine has a wow&flutter figure. It can be very small or unnoticeable but still measurable. It’s inherent with mechanical motor-platter systems. Only digital playback systems with buffer or memory have unmeasurable wow&flutter. They can reproduce sound without any fluctuations in speed.

If you want to hear how your turntable’s wow&flutter sound like you can simply play AM test record’s 3150Hz track. You will hear speed deviation as shift in frequency. This shift in frequency is total wow&flutter of lathe and your turntable. Check by yourself and decide if it has an impact on sound or not.

You can use other test records but make sure their spindle holes are in dead center. AM test record is good in that regard.

I cannot say that the Monaco 2.0 has no wow & flutter. I agree it is an electro-mechanical physical device and not perfect. I can only relay what I've learned from the table itself and from talking with Alvin Lloyd.

On my table there is no audible frequency shift to hear. You can question my ears if you like. I'm telling you my experience.

From my conversations with him I believe Alvin's view is that the Monaco is more accurate and his measurement equipment is more accurate than a physical test record's signal fed to an algorithm through a stylus tracking a groove. His data comes from reading the platter directly using marks engraved on an encoder ring at the platter's circumference. The 2.0 table reports platter speed to the controller at the rate of 166,289 times per second (299,320 times per revolution), running at 33?rpm. The rate is actually greater than that according to Lloyd; he tends to be conservative in publishing specs and my nda won't let me say. I invite you to contact him for more information.

Published specs:
Speed Deviation
Peak deviation from mean (33? rpm) = 0.00008% 3 sigma
R.M.S. deviation from mean = 0.000057%

I don't want to debate about AM or other measuring systems; AM is a fine tool, it too is not perfect. Different measuring tools give different results. Every test record is different and different test records yield different results.

 

[jfrech]

Hi Tima, have you heard the 3.0 yet? I am thinking about upgrading soon...

 

[tima]

Hi Tima, have you heard the 3.0 yet? I am thinking about upgrading soon...

Hi -- We saw the HiFi Exotics coverage but I don't think it is 'officially' announced to the rest of the world. Nothing on the Web site yet. I was told next year, maybe January 2023, but I'd advise that may not be finalized.

 

[jfrech]

I ordered the 3.0 yesterday. So it has 2 boxes, 1 for motor controller, about 17 wide, 10 deep and 5 inches tall. 20 pounds. Same size and weight for the battery supply. I don't know where yet I am going to put 2 more large boxes ! My 2.0 gets packed up and back to the factory for new bearings etc. All of this should take about 3 weeks. I'll post some pics the of the 2.0 getting packed up and the 3.0 getting unpacked/set up soon.

 

[spiritofmusic]

So J, no qualms about staying "in the family" after you heard the exemplary belt drive Nagra? I don't mean the Nagra specifically, but you did comment on that belt drive presenting sound in particularly glowing terms, did you ever consider re-investigating other belt drives out there?

 

[jfrech]

So J, no qualms about staying "in the family" after you heard the exemplary belt drive Nagra? I don't mean the Nagra specifically, but you did comment on that belt drive presenting sound in particularly glowing terms, did you ever consider re-investigating other belt drives out there?

Exactly I decided to stay in the family and Alvin has a great track record from 1.0 > 2.0 and I suspect the 2.0 > is a bigger improvement.

The Nagra is excellent. But that price. I have always loved my GPA Monaco, I had it for at least 10 years now. Maybe longer I'd have to look. I decided that everything from Grand Prix Audio has been excellent and I didn't want to drift to something that was better is most ways but back in others, which is what usually happens from my experience changing brands. I felt this was a safe decision. As soon at it arrives I'll post impressions...

 

[Lxgreen]

Ok, so I went to my semi-local dealer and he set up the Monaco 3.0 with a Koetsu blue lace cartridge next to an AMG Viella with teatro cartridge. My Viella has a Koetsu so not an exact duplicate of my system. i love my Viella and plays beautifully but thought i would try out the Monaco. It was immediately apparent the Monaco 3.0 was a big step up which is saying a lot because the Viella is awesome. I’ve never heard the Monaco 2.0 so can’t comment on improvements. I’m ordering with the triplaner SE arm and using rca cables for phono rather than din based on dealer recommendations. He is using Cardas Clear beyond rca with a Cardas wood block to connect to arm in his showroom so I’ll probably do that as well. Delivery is supposedly 6-8 weeks

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Ok, so I went to my semi-local dealer and he set up the Monaco 3.0 with a Koetsu blue lace cartridge next to an AMG Viella with teatro cartridge. My Viella has a Koetsu so not an exact duplicate of my system. i love my Viella and plays beautifully but thought i would try out the Monaco. It was immediately apparent the Monaco 3.0 was a big step up which is saying a lot because the Viella is awesome. I’ve never heard the Monaco 2.0 so can’t comment on improvements. I’m ordering with the triplaner SE arm and using rca cables for phono rather than din based on dealer recommendations. He is using Cardas Clear beyond rca with a Cardas wood block to connect to arm in his showroom so I’ll probably do that as well. Delivery is supposedly 6-8 weeks

congrats on the GP Monaco 3.0. sounds like you've done your homework. please tell us about it when you have it in room. and pictures too.