State of the industry - Roy Gregory Editorial

[spiritofmusic]

Marc your list is a boomer list. No way my kids would consider them as influencers.

Harry and Emma for Boomers?
C'mon daddy-o!
I guess your kids can obsess over Ariande Grande's Swarovski-encrusted IPhone, maybe that's the future of the high end.

 

[ddk]

Good thing we and millions of others found our way to music and music systems without the internet and being told by some annoying “influencer”, even the title makes me puke! Why do youth of today have to be Nannied to death and spoon fed? Herded actually like sheeple. The journey and discovery is part of the learning and growing allow anyone who’s interested figure it out without interference. Specially by the group that for the most part is totally confused and still chasing it’s own tail! The magazines and people like Pearson and Holt with their army of zombie reviewers already poisoned enough of our generation don’t do the same to the future. Like you haven’t guessed I have a very dim view of this industry in it’s current stage, too few professionals and too many mouth pieces at every level.

david

 

[rbbert]

In classical music, and classical contemporary avantgarde, as well as jazz, there are many great modern recordings.

One would hope that in classical and jazz music heavy handed overmastering would not be a problem, and while it is much less common than in pop-rock it has become more prevalent (and annoying) in recent years

 

[rbbert]

Like you haven’t guessed I have a very dim view of this industry in it’s current stage, too few professionals and too many mouth pieces at every level.

While I would agree in part with this opinion, I think the "industry" has usually been somewhat self-destructive. Every decade from the 1960's on has had cringeworthy advertising and phoilosophy by the "hifi" industry (Dynagroove? Vanishingly low THD and IM values?) Whatever one might think of Stereophile and The Absolute Sound now, their formative years addressed a clear need to attempt to counter that.

 

[morricab]

Does anyone in this hobby know anyone really interested in the hobby, even those with a true love for music? I don't, no audiophile I know does either.
All we have are long suffering partners, friends who look at us as if we need our lithium or tramadol and quick.
And those who you'd think would be into the hobby are resolutely immune to its charms.
My GF's brother has a couple of thousand CDs and goes to live classical multiple times a week, he runs a very modest lo fi system.
I have three professional classical musicians and a club DJ as patients, they just dismiss the idea of a specialist system at home.
And woe betide you mention the hobby to any music lover under 25, if looks of incredulity and pity could kill, I'd be dead many times over.
Of course, play some music to these listeners on my rig, and they're in the moment in a way no IPod could manage, but the moment they're out of the room, the spell is broken and they're back onto ITunes.
The hobby is dead to anyone under 35 as far as I can see.

You need new friends... mine are either impressed enough to start their own modest (or not so modest) audiophile systems or at least we spend a large % of the time playing their favorite music. No one rolls their eyes or think I’m nuts (at least not for my hifi ). If non-audiophiles are not at least moderately impressed with the sound of your system I would have a hard look at your system

 

[spiritofmusic]

And Brad, you really need to read my words before you resort to cheap jibes. I already said they're in the moment when they listen here, they genuinely love the sound at my place. But for them, they can't reconcile the expense of the hobby, the need for real estate, the time constraints and multiple interruptions to dedicated listening that this hobby demands. That's w Zus and not w Zus.

 

[morricab]

And Brad, you really need to read my words before you resort to cheap jibes. I already said they're in the moment when they listen here, they genuinely love the sound at my place. But for them, they can't reconcile the expense of the hobby, the need for real estate, the time constraints and multiple interruptions to dedicated listening that this hobby demands. That's w Zus and not w Zus.

Then they are being polite...

 

[spiritofmusic]

Whatever.

 

[spiritofmusic]

I believe Brad is the man we need. The man to save the industry.
He shows his system to ten guys, and they're inspired to buy into the high end.
These guys then show their systems to ten other guys each. And you know, they buy in.
And on and on.
And before you know it, the whole world has jacked in its collective IPod, and listening on the go, and music in the background...and we're all sitting down to reverentially listen to music w no distractions.
And Twitter will jack in the culture war and take to brutal discussions on cables and fuses and switches and VTA.
It's a brave new world, alright.

 

[andromedaaudio]

These guys then show their systems to ten other guys each. And you know, they buy in.
And on and on.

Sounds like a ponzi scheme lol

 

[ddk]

While I would agree in part with this opinion, I think the "industry" has usually been somewhat self-destructive. Every decade from the 1960's on has had cringeworthy advertising and phoilosophy by the "hifi" industry (Dynagroove? Vanishingly low THD and IM values?) Whatever one might think of Stereophile and The Absolute Sound now, their formative years addressed a clear need to attempt to counter that.

Actually I don’t have a problem with either magazine these days and believe they provide an information service as Elliot mentioned. It’s the HP days and his power over the industry and unnatural influence with the consumer that I had a problem with and I see him in particular extremely toxic in that period. A lot of confusion today is a direct result of both magazines.
david

 

[morricab]

I believe Brad is the man we need. The man to save the industry.
He shows his system to ten guys, and they're inspired to buy into the high end.
These guys then show their systems to ten other guys each. And you know, they buy in.
And on and on.
And before you know it, the whole world has jacked in its collective IPod, and listening on the go, and music in the background...and we're all sitting down to reverentially listen to music w no distractions.
And Twitter will jack in the culture war and take to brutal discussions on cables and fuses and switches and VTA.
It's a brave new world, alright.

If you want people to adopt your hobby then it has to be clear to the music lover, who is not yet into audio, what advantage to listening is being gained. Most systems I have heard don’t give that compelling reason. The sound doesn’t speak for itself. You focus on the OCD aspects but really it is about convincing sound...period. They should hear it and think WOW, haven’t heard anything like that before.

if I had 2 million euro to blow on a system I would seriously consider buying the full Munich Living Voice rig because it does things I have never ever heard a stereo do. It goes beyond and the sound is truly convincing.

 

[PeterA]

If you want people to adopt your hobby then it has to be clear to the music lover, who is not yet into audio, what advantage to listening is being gained. Most systems I have heard don’t give that compelling reason. The sound doesn’t speak for itself. You focus on the OCD aspects but really it is about convincing sound...period. They should hear it and think WOW, haven’t heard anything like that before.

I agree Brad. Listeners have to leave thinking about that listening experience and sound and wanting to get more of it. I had that experience when I heard the Magico V2 with vinyl. It lead to me getting the Mini II. After that experience, I was hooked. If you tell them what it costs, they will walk away unless all they can think about is how good it sounded and how much they enjoyed listening to the music. It's about the experience and values.

 

[spiritofmusic]

If you want people to adopt your hobby then it has to be clear to the music lover, who is not yet into audio, what advantage to listening is being gained. Most systems I have heard don’t give that compelling reason. The sound doesn’t speak for itself. You focus on the OCD aspects but really it is about convincing sound...period. They should hear it and think WOW, haven’t heard anything like that before.

if I had 2 million euro to blow on a system I would seriously consider buying the full Munich Living Voice rig because it does things I have never ever heard a stereo do. It goes beyond and the sound is truly convincing.

You're sounding like the guy who tries to convince his friends that driving needs to involve a Ferrari etc.
I can tell you right now, the family, friends and patients that I know who have a love for music, precisely zero of them have the inclination to go into our hobby in any meaningful way.
So yes, it's great you have friends who've taken the plunge, big and small, that's not my experience in the least.
A good take is a waiter at our local Indian restaurant. He has spent good money on his car, watch and clothes. He has zero interest in an audio system at home beyond ITunes and Soundbar, IPod etc.
You put him in front of the Living Voice, he'll love what he hears, but once out of the room he'll only want to talk about the Porsche Boxster he's determined to buy.

 

[Al M.]

I agree Brad. Listeners have to leave thinking about that listening experience and sound and wanting to get more of it. I had that experience when I heard the Magico V2 with vinyl. It lead to me getting the Mini II. After that experience, I was hooked. If you tell them what it costs, they will walk away unless all they can think about is how good it sounded and how much they enjoyed listening to the music. It's about the experience and values.

But you were already an audiophile back then, Peter, willing to spend the money. Big difference.

All non-audiophiles who heard my system loved the sound. But none of them would have been willing to spend some money towards the goal of such a sound.

 

[PeterA]

But you were already an audiophile back then, Peter, willing to spend the money. Big difference.

All non-audiophiles who heard my system loved the sound. But none of them would have been willing to spend some money towards the goal of such a sound.

Yes, I had a system, but I was not really into it the way I am now. No idea if that made me an audiophile then. It was that system, heard with a friend, that got me to pursue the hobby more intensively. The key to my post was that I could not stop thinking about that system after I left the store. Who knows if your friends who hear your system think about it after they leave. Have you asked them?

The same thing happened to me when visiting Utah and hearing ddk's big system. The next day I heard the Vitavoxs in his small room. That night I was up late reading everything I could about Vitavox on the net. First thing I did the next morning as David was making breakfast was sneak into that room and put on one of my LPs to hear that complete system again. A year later, I now own it. That kind of experience can be transforming. Ask your friends if any of them were transformed.

Sure non audiophiles can be impressed with the systems on this forum. For the most part, they are much better than what they have heard before. That's not hard to do. What's hard is to get them to change their behavior because you have exposed them to something which they can not get out of their heads.

 

[Al M.]

Yes, I had a system, but I was not really into it the way I am now. No idea if that made me an audiophile then. It was that system, heard with a friend, that got me to pursue the hobby more intensively. The key to my post was that I could not stop thinking about that system after I left the store. Who knows if your friends who hear your system think about it after they leave. Have you asked them?

I know from three that they were thinking about it afterwards. That doesn't mean that they were enticed to become audiophiles.

Just like I was not enticed after the experiences in Austria of a Porsche GT3 RS and the, for me at least equally impressive, experience of my friend's extremely light-weight Alpine A110 (loved that car on the tight-cornered Austrian mountain roads!!!!!!) to go out and buy a sports car myself. I still love my little 2015 Nissan Versa, which is its own little fun in corners (no, not comparable with the A110).

Alpine A110:

The same thing happened to me when visiting Utah and hearing ddk's big system. The next day I heard the Vitavoxs in his small room. That night I was up late reading everything I could about Vitavox on the net. First thing I did the next morning as David was making breakfast was sneak into that room and put on one of my LPs to hear that complete system again. A year later, I now own it. That kind of experience can be transforming. Ask your friends if any of them were transformed.

Now you are again talking from your perspective as already being an audiophile, and then ask if my non-audiophile friends were transformed like you were, having already been an audiophile when visiting Utah. I don't quite see the logic here.

Sure non audiophiles can be impressed with the systems on this forum. For the most part, they are much better than what they have heard before. That's not hard to do. What's hard is to get them to change their behavior because you have exposed them to something which they can not get out of their heads.

Well, you already had a system back then, when you heard the Magicos. So yes, that made you at least a budding audiophile.

You should ask yourself another question: How many of the non-audiophile people who you told me were in love with the sound your horn system have become audiophiles? You know the answer. It makes my point.

 

[Lee]

If you want people to adopt your hobby then it has to be clear to the music lover, who is not yet into audio, what advantage to listening is being gained. Most systems I have heard don’t give that compelling reason. The sound doesn’t speak for itself. You focus on the OCD aspects but really it is about convincing sound...period. They should hear it and think WOW, haven’t heard anything like that before.

You are describing my WOW moment with Mike Kay at Lyric. Fortunately there are many ways to experience a WOW moment…trade shows, dealers, and perhaps best of all a listen at a friend’s place. Our local vinyl store had two employees really interested in jazz. We started to get together and have listens on my system. We worked together to improve their systems with recommendations and then them having a listen at dealers and friends. One wound up with ELAC speakers and Prima Luna gear.

 

[Lee]

Actually I don’t have a problem with either magazine these days and believe they provide an information service as Elliot mentioned. It’s the HP days and his power over the industry and unnatural influence with the consumer that I had a problem with and I see him in particular extremely toxic in that period. A lot of confusion today is a direct result of both magazines.
david

David,

What confusion are you talking about? Can you provide specifics? I am curious to learn if there are things we can do better.

 

[microstrip]

(...) if I had 2 million euro to blow on a system I would seriously consider buying the full Munich Living Voice rig because it does things I have never ever heard a stereo do. It goes beyond and the sound is truly convincing.

Which Munich session are you addressing?